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That question, which proposes the possibility of predation towards larger animals, is contradicted by the fact of its somewhat weaker jaws and snout shape.
Gee..... I guess that means that Sarcosuchus, with incredibly similar, relatively narrow jaws couldn't hunt larger animals either, contradicting Paul Sereno.
EDITED by Tomhet: I left your sarcasm out. Please do so in the future.
And guess what, T Rex has jaws practically as narrow as Sarcosuchos, they just seem wider because its snout is shorter. That's what's called an "optical illusion". I guess that means T Rex cannot hunt large animals either.......... just like another famous paleontologist has stated.
Modern crocodiles did not descend from Spinosaurs. A comparative biomechanical analysis of function in the snout of (spinosaurid) Baryonyx walkeri has been performed comparing it to large theropods and crocodylians (Alligator, Gavialis). The results demonstrate that the closest structural and biomechanical analogue to B. walkeri is the extant gharial and not the alligator or conventional theropods. A.J. Charig and Angela C. Milner have hypothesized that the long superficially crocodilian snout of Spinosaurs support a largely piscivorous diet. With respect to Sarcosuchus crocodilian biologist are skeptical of the animals giant killing abilitys. The long thin snout of Sarcosuchus was very similar to the thin snouts of the modern gharial, the false gharial and the slender snouted crocodile, all of which are nearly exclusive fish eaters and incapable of tackling large prey. Unlike the Modern Nile Crocodile and the extinct Deinosuchus, both of which exhibit very broad, heavy skulls suitable for dealing with large prey. Also at this time there existed a large abundance of lobe-finned fish which suggest Sarcosuchus was not a dinosaur killer but simply a large piscivore, a scaled-up version of the modern gharial. The fish were often over 6 ft. and 200 lbs. It's large size was probably an adaption for dealing with exceptionally large fish many of which possessed a layer of osteoderms for protection. It probably also on occassion (like Spinosaurs) ate turtles, carrion, and small dinosaurs.
Even if Spinosaurus was a predator of large prey, he wouldn't go around hunting other large theropods!
He wouldn't have to. They would come to him when they were thirsty, just like a lion or wildebeast, and the less wary dinos would be caught. Watch animal planet and it will all become clear.
« Last Edit: Jan 20, 2009, 12:56pm by ningishzida »
^^^ yep , SIMILAR, but not exactly the same. Sarchosuchus's skull also isn't as narrow as spinosaurus's, and the bones of the skull are much thicker.
But Spino has the large, crushing teeth that PROVE the jaws had to be strong enough to use them. That's just the way it works in nature. Real life isn't a cartoon. If spino had weak jaws, it would have small, thin teeth like every other fish catching specialist. These teeth are designed to crush shells and bones like a typical alligator or crocodile.
Spino's head, and that of other spinosaurids, strongly suggest a semi aquatic existence similar to the crocodilians whose heads they so resemble. Huge adult spinos may have spent most of their time in the water, which helped buoy their bodies, much as was once thought of the sauropods. The large forearms we suspect spino to have may have also taken some weight off of their hindlegs as has been postulated by scientists concerning Baryonyx. The water probably has everything to do with spino's huge size, just as it does for the supercrocs.
If the huge adult spinos largely stayed in riverine environments, this could explain why Charco could also be a top order predator in this locale, just as we see crocs and lions as top predators in africa today, and because of thier different lifestyles, probably did not have that much contact.
Though just as rivers are dangerous places to lions if they contain crocodiles, spino infested rivers were probably dangerous places for unwary Charcos, as any other dino.
There is a good drawing of a bulky spino down on all fours that I saw on the internet once, though now I can't find it.
They would have had to stand in water chest deep to buoy themselves. And their wrists couldn't support a quadrupedal existence, as they would have dislocated.
So, spinosaurus used to actively hunt charcharos, and now they don't bother them unless they are in their territory? Make up your mind man!
I never changed my position. From the beginning I stated they occupied different areas of their environments, which is the only explanation there could be to top order predators, just as we see in africa with crocs and lions.
Several scientists maintain baryonyx could support itself in a quadrepedal position, and many of the "scientific" models show this. Spino may have had even larger, more massive arms. Until these fossils are found it is ridiculous to say "they can't". And even when they are found and scientists make that claim they could be wrong.
These claims by some scientists mean nothing. Read books about pterosaurs and scientists plainly state nothing bigger than an pterandon could fly....... and then came Quetzalcoatlus that proved them wrong...... the same claims were made again about Q being the maximum size for a flying creature, and then the far more enrmous Hatzgeopteryx was found.
Gee..... I guess that means that Sarcosuchus, with incredibly similar, relatively narrow jaws couldn't hunt larger animals either, contradicting Paul Sereno.
EDITED by Tomhet: I left your sarcasm out. Please do so in the future.
And guess what, T Rex has jaws practically as narrow as Sarcosuchos, they just seem wider because its snout is shorter. That's what's called an "optical illusion". I guess that means T Rex cannot hunt large animals either.......... just like another famous paleontologist has stated.
Modern crocodiles did not descend from Spinosaurs. A comparative biomechanical analysis of function in the snout of (spinosaurid) Baryonyx walkeri has been performed comparing it to large theropods and crocodylians (Alligator, Gavialis). The results demonstrate that the closest structural and biomechanical analogue to B. walkeri is the extant gharial and not the alligator or conventional theropods. A.J. Charig and Angela C. Milner have hypothesized that the long superficially crocodilian snout of Spinosaurs support a largely piscivorous diet. With respect to Sarcosuchus crocodilian biologist are skeptical of the animals giant killing abilitys. The long thin snout of Sarcosuchus was very similar to the thin snouts of the modern gharial, the false gharial and the slender snouted crocodile, all of which are nearly exclusive fish eaters and incapable of tackling large prey. Unlike the Modern Nile Crocodile and the extinct Deinosuchus, both of which exhibit very broad, heavy skulls suitable for dealing with large prey. Also at this time there existed a large abundance of lobe-finned fish which suggest Sarcosuchus was not a dinosaur killer but simply a large piscivore, a scaled-up version of the modern gharial. The fish were often over 6 ft. and 200 lbs. It's large size was probably an adaption for dealing with exceptionally large fish many of which possessed a layer of osteoderms for protection. It probably also on occassion (like Spinosaurs) ate turtles, carrion, and small dinosaurs.
I never stated they were related, but had similar jaws due to convergent evolution.
Sereno came to his conclusions by studying live crocodilians. Sarco like Spino both have the powerful crushing teeth of a "generalist" croc or gator, not teeth specialized for catching fish.
Yes, when young, fish would be a larger part of its diet, but like a nile croc, as they grew large enough to tackle large prey, they most likely would prey on unwary animals coming to the water to drink.
Sarco's ancestors would be smaller, and probably was a specialist fish eater before it evolved into a supercroc. But once a supercroc, irregardless of a thinner snout, logically preyed on anything it could overpower. Deinosuchos, on the other hand evolved from a more generalist crocodilian.
But once you are a supercroc, and have the massive teeth and crushing jaws that comes with that, you pretty much eat just about anything you want to, just like a 20 foot nile croc today.
So now Sarcosuchus, massive as it was, is thought to have eaten large fish like Spinosaurus?
(Instead of large dinosaurs) ?
A couple of scientists just wanted to get their name in the press by arguing that Sarco didn't hunt dinosaurs, much as the publicity Horner received with the "T rex is only a scavenge" nonsense. Anyone who has seen the lifesize reconstruction of Sarco wouldn't take this seriously.
Re: Spinosaurus size « Reply #309 on Jan 20, 2009, 1:06pm »
Iīm with stoneage here.
Even if Sereno is right in the strenght estimation of Sarcosuchus, Spinosaurus jawbone could never have the same wide and robustness, no matter how much they grow. All that we know about spinosaurids skull structure says a lot about this.
You canīt compare the growing guidelines of crocodilians with these that spinosaurids had, cause they were so philogenetycally far-related as Turtles and Tyrannosaurids are. If the Spinosaurus jawbone grow like that , we should have noticed some similar guideline in Suchomimus or Irritator...which remains are, if not from adults, neither babies.
And there are a few divergences between gharial and Sarcosuchus skull. ...the jawbone widening in Sarcosuchus is more abrupt and long than this of gharials. The teeth are also proportionally a lot smaller and thick, and it donīt interlock. At naked eye, the Sarco skull donīt screams "weak" for me, like those of gharials do... Just look at this.
Anyway, dont you consider my minus karma, ehm...excessive? man, what i did to deserve all that hate? iīm also a newbie here.
( Lets back to the topic!;))
Don't worry about the karma thing, It will only be the same 1 or 2 people giving it to you, I like your opinion's and everyone else's but some people on here believe they are never wrong so when you disagree with them they decide to 'Hate'.
Re: Spinosaurus size « Reply #314 on Jan 21, 2009, 12:36am »
Like I said in my PM, the karma is all arbitrary. I could just sit here all night, and once every hour smite, say, Ning. But, what point is there? It is just a silly game. The first week I was here I got a -1, and I never knew what the heck I did to anyone, I barely even posted anything. There is no big there I think.
Re: Spinosaurus size « Reply #315 on Jan 21, 2009, 1:33am »
Just let it go, boys. I just say, to anyone who massively smited me: keep all that hate inside of you canīt be healthy! chill out, breath, and insult me via mp if you want! that will be a lot more therapeutic and helpful! seriously, i wanna help!
Just let it go, boys. I just say, to anyone who massively smited me: keep all that hate inside of you canīt be healthy! chill out, breath, and insult me me via mp if you want! that will be a lot more therapeutic and helpful!
Hehe, I agree I have been Un-Smiting you today but someone keeps putting you back on -11 Gee i wonder who it could be?
A world where dinosaurs and humans coexist in harmony!
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Re: Spinosaurus size « Reply #317 on Jan 21, 2009, 3:02am »
Hey, Ajax, what about us that have "0" karma? Not that I really care. But, it's interesting that we've both been here awhile now and have contributed alot of input, but we both have a big "goose egg"! LOL!!!
Hey, Ajax, what about us that have "0" karma? Not that I really care. But, it's interesting that we've both been here awhile now and have contributed alot of input, but we both have a big "goose egg"! LOL!!!
Yeah i had 1 a couple of times but some members don't like me and smite me, Anyway i will give you one for being so observant, but it may not last as someone will probably smite you like they do to me.
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I just say, to anyone who massively smited me: keep all that hate inside of you canīt be healthy! chill out, breath, and insult me via mp if you want! that will be a lot more therapeutic and helpful! seriously, i wanna help! ![[avatar]](http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/7859/dino20morphing.gif "[avatar]")
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