Carnegie Triceratops Analysis (revised)

[therizinosaurus]

Okay, so I don't know if anyone here will even care about this thread, but it's something I thought might be interesting to do. As many of you know, I am what you might call a Carnegie Collection addict, especially the old grey vinyl figures (for background on what I mean by that check out Realm of the Rubber Dinos or Randy Knol's site). I noticed many differences in my older Carnegie figures, so I have decided to analyze the different species. First up: #406-01 or #4006-01 Triceratops.
I have 3 grey vinyl Triceratops's in my collection, each of them a different mold variation. Two of them I believe belong to the original number 406-01, and one of them is a grey vinyl version of the revised 4006-01. I will be commenting on the vinyl, paint, text, mold lines, and size of each figure. One I analyze more species, I will see if any conclusions can be drawn about the early model's of the Carnegie Collection.
This is the original color variation of the Triceratops for those who don't know:

I will post pictures of my individual models soon.

I have named my first model #406-01-?? (last 2 digits added by me). I believe this to be the oldest of the three based on reasons discussed later.
Vinyl: Dark grey/almost black, the darkest of the three

Paint:
Black on back: Very dark grey, not quite black. Larger individual scales detailed in pure black. Black extends 1/3 of the way down the back
Underbody: More grey than greenish
Beak and horns: Opaque cream/white
Lips, nostril, and are around eye: Sand blue
Frill: Ring around frill, dark, same color as back
Eye: Orange eye with large black pupil

Text: Faces right, center aligned
(C)1988 THE CARNEGIE
SAFARI LTD., MIAMI, FL.
TRICERATOPS
9 METERS
MADE IN CHINA

Mold line:
Underbody: Splits in front of forelegs. Stays split on either side of text and on legs. Rejoins on underside of tail behind black legs.
Back: Runs continuously down spine.
Head/frill: Runs under and over frill unbroken. Runs up right horn. Crosses head between horns. Runs down left side of face above eye. Runs over nose horn and beak, and under chin
Mold pieces: 3-part mold

Size:
Width: 39mm
Length: 182mm
Height: 72mm
Width of frill: 46mm
Width of horn: 5mm
Length of horn: 21mm
Length of head: 63mm


The second Triceratops in my collection is #406-01-?? (again, last 2 numbers mine). I believe this to be a later version of the figure numbered #406-1, but not derived enough to belong to #4006-1.
Vinyl: Medium grey, the lightest of the 3

Paint:
Black on back: Solid black, no detailing of larger scales. Extends 1/2 way down back
Underbody: Much more grey than green
Beak and horns: Transparent cream/white, green shows through
Lips, nostril, and are around eye: Light blue
Frill: Faded ring around frill, lighter than back
Eye: Orange eyes, small black pupil

Text: Faces right, left aligned
(C)1988 THE CARNEGIE
SAFARI LTD
TRICERATOPS
9 METERS

Mold line:
Underbody: Splits in front of forelegs. Stays split on either side of text and on legs. Rejoins on underside of tail behind black legs (same as 406-01-??)
Back: Runs continuously down spine (same as 406-01-??)
Head/frill: Runs under and down frill unbroken. Splits between horns. Runs along horns separately. Rejoins between eyes. Runs down nose horn and beak and under chin.
Mold pieces: 4-part mold

Size:
Width: 38mm
Length: 181mm
Height: 71mm
Width of frill: 40mm
Width of horn: 4mm
Length of horn: 20mm
Length of head: 65mm


The third grey vinyl Triceratops I have is the most derived of the three. I say this because it is clearly the same mold that was used to make colored vinyl figures. Some background information: #406-1 Triceratops was released in 1988. In 1994 it was renumbered to the new 6-digit numbering system, and became #4006-01. A change in the mold was made at this point, and the figure was produced in this form until 1995, when it was retired. In 1996 the figure was rereleased (retaining the number 4006-01) but this time in colored vinyl. The third one in my collection is from that transition period between 1994 and 1995, when it was called #4006-01 but still made in grey vinyl. I will call this figure #4006-01-??.
Vinyl: Dark grey, between 406-01-??and 406-01-??

Paint:
Black on back: Solid black,darker detailing of larger scales. Extends all the way down back and onto the legs
Underbody: Mix of grey and green
Beak and horns: Transparent cream/white, green shows through (same as 406-01-02)
Lips, nostril, and are around eye: Light blue (same as 406-01-02)
Frill: Very faded ring around frill, lighter than back, not well defined
Eye: Orange eyes, small black pupil (same as 406-01-02)

Text: Faces right, left aligned
TRICERATOPS
9 METERS
(C)1988 THE CARNEGIE
SAFARI LTD
MADE IN CHINA
CE 2

Mold line:
Underbody: Splits in front of forelegs. Stays split on either side of text and on legs. Rejoins on underside of tail behind black legs (same as 406-01-01 and 406-01-02)
Back: Runs continuously down spine (same as 406-01-01)
Head/frill: Under frill goes right. Splits on frill, one half runs along ridge of frill and down to left horn and one half runs straight down to right horn. Lines rejoin on nose horn. Runs over beak and under chin
Mold pieces: 4-part mold (same as 406-01-02)

Size:
Width: 36mm
Length: 177mm
Height: 70mm
Width of frill: 40mm
Width of horn: 4mm
Length of horn: 20mm
Length of head: 62mm


Alright--so, is this important or even necessary? Probably not. I thought it might to be interesting how this figure changed over time. Some conclusions can be drawn--
The figure decreased in size over time (will this trend continue in other species? Check back to find out)
The color of the vinyl went: dark-->light-->medium
There is one confirmed version of 4006-01 I do not have, that with a 1 on the bottom text in place of a 2 (this has been confirmed to exist)
I also do not have the original gold wash Triceratops so I cannot compare the mold variation with the ones I have
The earliest variation I have is the only one that says "Miami, FL". This trend may continue.
Also, I am sure there are some variations I do not have. If you have a grey vinyl Triceratops, I would be very appreciative if you could check the mold lines or bottom text to see if it matches any of the ones I have.

Also, if there is anything I missed that you would like to know, just let me know. And please, if there's a species you want me to cover next let me know and I'll do my best.

Eventually I hope to cover all older Carnegie's, and perhaps note some trends in the evolution of the line.

Best,
Theri

[Dan]

So this is why it took so long for me to get those Battats from you. You've been a busy boy!

[itstwentybelow]

I'm just looking at my old Carnegie Trike here and I think I may have another variation in the belly printing. It reads like this:
(C) 1988 THE CARNEGIE
SAFARI LTD
TRICERATOPS
9 METERS
CE

The difference is the "CE" logo not being followed by any numbers. Everything else like mold lines and color are pretty much the same as yours.

[webdragon]

Holy cow Therizinosaurus, you've made my day I've got a few of these trics, including the gold wash one and another weird variant. I'm off to take pictures and notes this minute!

[webdragon]

Here's my Triceratops collection to add to Therizinosaurus's awesome post. Therizinosaurus, if you can fit these into your classification scheme it would be awesome, let me know what you think!

All four of them have the same mold line: splitting in front of the forelegs, staying split through the middle, and rejoining at the base of the tail. The text on all four reads:
(C)1988 THE CARNEGIE
SAFARI LTD., MIAMI, FL.
TRICERATOPS
9 METERS
MADE IN CHINA




"Gold wash" version: This one is NOT the original first-year release of the Triceratops, as it has a glossy finish, and is not made of gray vinyl (the original version can be seen here: www.dinosaurcollector.150m.com/CSafari.htm). This is molded in a tan-colored vinyl.
Paint: Black behind the frill, fading to a dark brown near the tail. Yellow paint underneath and along the sides of the face. Frill and underbelly gray. No detail on the larger body scales.
Underbody: Gray. Text on the underbelly stamped clearly.
Beak and horns: Opaque white, tipped with dark gray.
Lips, nostril, and around eye: opaque white.
Frill: Two rows of spots, inner row spots small, appear airbrushed.
Eye: Orange with large black pupil.

Light-backed version: Molded in brown-colored vinyl.
Paint: Very reduced back stripe in dark brown. Beige paint along sides, frill, and face. Gray underbelly. Large body scales detailed in dark gray.
Underbody: Gray. Text on underbelly stamped clearly.
Beak and horns: Opaque white tipped in dark gray.
Lips, nostril, and around eye: gray.
Frill: Two rows of spots, inner row spots large, appear hand-painted.
Eye: Orange with large black pupil.

Light gray vinyl version: Light gray vinyl!
Paint: Dark brown back coming down to the midline of the body (darker than the dark gray vinyl variation). Sage green on sides, face, and frill. Large body scales detailed in black.
Underbelly: Gray .Text on belly stamped not as clearly as the dark gray vinl version.
Beak and horns: Opaque white.
Lips, nostril, and around eye: gray
Frill: Outer ring of spots with inner solid ring, looks airbrushed.
Eye: Orange with large black pupil.
Note: This version is a little skinner around the middle than the dark gray vinyl one.

Dark gray vinyl version: Made of.. dark gray vinyl!
Paint: Dark brown back coming down to the midline of the body. sage green on sides, face, and frill. Large body scales detailed in black.
Underbelly: Gray .Text on belly stamped clearly.
Beak and horns: Opaque white.
Lips, nostril, and around eye: gray
Frill: Outer ring of spots with inner solid ring, looks airbrushed.
Eye: Orange with large black pupil.

Note: The gray around the eyes, lips, and nostril of the gray vinyl versions may be gray due to sun fading, and may have originally been blue, but they sure don't look it now. The pieces don't look faded otherwise though.

Whee, enjoy!

[therizinosaurus]

Wow, Webdragon, I can't think you enough (and you too itstwentlybelow). I will go through the information now and hopefully come up with a complete (revised) classification system for these guys.
Also, Webdragon, is there any difference in the bottom text? I know in some of my figures the text appears the same until looked at incredibly close (my old Allosaurus's drove me crazy, as the differences were minute) (also, in my 2 of my Stegosaurus's the bottom text looked the same until I saw that the size of the CE was different). Also, are the mold lines on the head the same? (if you could just compare them to the ones I listed in my original post I would be very thankful).

Thanks again you guys, this is becoming a very cool project!!

[therizinosaurus]

Alright, I'm going to repost this as it may add some relevance to my next post which will come later tonight:

Jun 25, 2008 22:50:13 GMT therizinosaurus said:

Alright, after looking at more Carnegies I think I may have finally figured it out!
note: this is all speculative, but since I have no contradictory evidence, I will pose it as fact
note 2: I also assume the reader has prior knowledge on the 1994/5 Carnegie vinyl boundary, if you don't, see Realm of the Rubber Dinosaurs

The first group of Carnegie dinosaurs are the ones produced from 1988/9 to 1991. These ones have the copyright as well as "Miami, FL" and "Made in China". The ones in this group I have confirmed are Stegosaurus, Apatosaurus Baby, Parasaurolophus, Triceratops, Australopithecus M/F, Diplodocus, Protoceratops, Smilodon, Deinonychus, Pachycephalosaurus, and Maiasaura on eggs. Based on this principle it can be assumed that Tyrannosaurus, Brachiosaurus, Apatosaurus, Euoplocephalus, and Dimetrodon have "Miami" versions. Also, the original Allosaurus has no markings, but I have 2 different versions so one may be in the 1989-1991 group. Since Elasmosaurus and Mosasaurus (and anything later) weren't released until 1992, there are no Miami versions. Starting in 1992, the firgues were still cast in grey vinyl but didn't say "Miami, FL" (some say "Made in China" still). I have some of these, but hypothetically there should be all of the ones above, plus: Elasmosaurus, Mosasaurus, Iguanodon, Spinosaurus, Corythosaurus, Dilophosaurus, and Plateosaurus. Then, in 1995-ish, they switched to colored vinyl. Allosaurus, Australopithecus male, Australopithecus female, Dimetrodon, Maiasaura, Protoceratops, Smilodon, Deinonychus, Mosasaurus, and maybe Euoplocephalus never crossed the boundary. Then, with the new vinyl, many of the old figures were re-released (ie Stegosaurus, Tyrannosaurus, Brachiosaurus, Apatosaurus, Apatosaurus baby, Parasaurolophus, Triceratops, Allosaurus, Diplodocus, Pteranodon, Pachycephalosaurus, Elasmosaurus, Mosasaurus, Iguanodon, Spinosaurus, Corythosaurus, Dilophosaurus pair, Plateosaurus) and none of these said "Miami, FL" on the bottom. But the new figures, starting with Deinosuchus and Maiasaura 2, again say "Miami, FL". This is true with all figures up until today.

Well, that was a long post, but since I finally figured it out, I thought I might post it here. Does anyone else find this interesting, or just me? Also, let me know if you have any of the hypothetical 1989-1991 figures or if you have any figures that contradict my thesis. Thanks, and enjoy!!!

[webdragon]

Yay, glad you like 'em! The mold line on all four of mine matches the mold line of the first Tric you have listed. I also forgot to mention that the first two I listed, the "gold wash" and light backed ones, have visible folds in their vinyl along their backs, as if it cooled too quickly and folded up as the molds were being poured.

As for the text you were asking about, there's no real difference that I can see, save for the fact that the stamp on the dark gray vinyl one is fainter and not as raised as the others.

[therizinosaurus]

Thank you so much Webdragon!
I'm trying to make sense of all the variations, I will have a revised classification up by tomorrow night at the latest. Who would have thought there were so many variations from just 1988-1996?

[tomhet]

Excellent work theri, it's clear that you love Carnegies

[Tyrannax]

*Bookmarks page* I'll enjoy reading this later.

[therizinosaurus]

Thanks for the compliments, I'm re-classifying and will have a post ready later tonight.

[EmperorDinobot]

I have the final version of this mofo. I love it. One of the cutest triceratops to date.
I remember when I got it. I was so happy!

So happy!

[therizinosaurus]

Alright, here's the new classification system, if anyone (aka Webdragon haha) can add to it or make any suggestions regarding it, please let me know.

#406-01-01 The original gold wash version
Seen here:
As far as I know, no one on the forum has this variant, so the bottom text cannot definitely be identified. Presumably, the text is:
(C)1988 THE CARNEGIE
SAFARI LTD., MIAMI, FL.
TRICERATOPS
9 METERS
MADE IN CHINA
At this point, no other information can be given about this variant except for the picture, if anyone can shed some light on it let me know.

#406-01-02 Webdragon's gold wash version (1st one in her pictures) (information is from webdragon)
Vinyl: Tan-colored vinyl.
Paint: Black behind the frill, fading to a dark brown near the tail. Yellow paint underneath and along the sides of the face. Frill and underbelly gray. No detail on the larger body scales.
Underbody: Gray. Text on the underbelly stamped clearly.
Beak and horns: Opaque white, tipped with dark gray.
Lips, nostril, and around eye: opaque white.
Frill: Two rows of spots, inner row spots small, appear airbrushed.
Eye: Orange with large black pupil.
Text:
(C)1988 THE CARNEGIE
SAFARI LTD., MIAMI, FL.
TRICERATOPS
9 METERS
MADE IN CHINA
Mold line:
Underbody: Splits in front of forelegs. Stays split on either side of text and on legs. Rejoins on underside of tail behind black legs.
Back: Runs continuously down spine.
Head/frill: Runs under and over frill unbroken. Runs up right horn. Crosses head between horns. Runs down left side of face above eye. Runs over nose horn and beak, and under chin
Mold pieces: 3-part mold

#406-01-03 Webdragon's light-backed version (2nd one in her pictures) (information is from webdragon)
Vinyl: Brown vinyl
Paint: Very reduced back stripe in dark brown. Beige paint along sides, frill, and face. Gray underbelly. Large body scales detailed in dark gray.
Underbody: Gray. Text on underbelly stamped clearly.
Beak and horns: Opaque white tipped in dark gray.
Lips, nostril, and around eye: gray.
Frill: Two rows of spots, inner row spots large, appear hand-painted.
Eye: Orange with large black pupil.
Text:
(C)1988 THE CARNEGIE
SAFARI LTD., MIAMI, FL.
TRICERATOPS
9 METERS
MADE IN CHINA
Mold line:
Underbody: Splits in front of forelegs. Stays split on either side of text and on legs. Rejoins on underside of tail behind black legs.
Back: Runs continuously down spine.
Head/frill: Runs under and over frill unbroken. Runs up right horn. Crosses head between horns. Runs down left side of face above eye. Runs over nose horn and beak, and under chin
Mold pieces: 3-part mold

#406-01-04 Dark grey Miami version (3rd one in webdragon's pictures) (information from me and Webdragon) (formerly 406-01-01)
Paint:
Black on back: Very dark grey, not quite black. Larger individual scales detailed in pure black. Black extends 1/3 of the way down the back
Underbody: More grey than greenish
Beak and horns: Opaque cream/white
Lips, nostril, and are around eye: grey
Frill: Ring around frill, dark, same color as back
Eye: Orange eye with large black pupil
Text:
(C)1988 THE CARNEGIE
SAFARI LTD., MIAMI, FL.
TRICERATOPS
9 METERS
MADE IN CHINA
Mold line:
Underbody: Splits in front of forelegs. Stays split on either side of text and on legs. Rejoins on underside of tail behind black legs.
Back: Runs continuously down spine.
Head/frill: Runs under and over frill unbroken. Runs up right horn. Crosses head between horns. Runs down left side of face above eye. Runs over nose horn and beak, and under chin
Mold pieces: 3-part mold

#406-01-05 Webdragon's light grey Miami version (4th one in her pictures) (information from webdragon)
Light gray vinyl version: Light gray vinyl!
Paint: Dark brown back coming down to the midline of the body (darker than the dark gray vinyl variation). Sage green on sides, face, and frill. Large body scales detailed in black.
Underbelly: Gray .Text on belly stamped not as clearly as the dark gray vinl version.
Beak and horns: Opaque white.
Lips, nostril, and around eye: gray
Frill: Outer ring of spots with inner solid ring, looks airbrushed.
Eye: Orange with large black pupil.
Note: This version is a little skinner around the middle than the dark gray vinyl one.
Text:
(C)1988 THE CARNEGIE
SAFARI LTD., MIAMI, FL.
TRICERATOPS
9 METERS
MADE IN CHINA
Mold line:
Underbody: Splits in front of forelegs. Stays split on either side of text and on legs. Rejoins on underside of tail behind black legs.
Back: Runs continuously down spine.
Head/frill: Runs under and over frill unbroken. Runs up right horn. Crosses head between horns. Runs down left side of face above eye. Runs over nose horn and beak, and under chin
Mold pieces: 3-part mold

#406-01-06 Theri's light-grey vinyl version (formerly #406-01-02)
Vinyl: Medium/light grey
Paint:
Black on back: Solid black, no detailing of larger scales. Extends 1/2 way down back
Underbody: Much more grey than green
Beak and horns: Transparent cream/white, green shows through
Lips, nostril, and are around eye: Light blue
Frill: Faded ring around frill, lighter than back
Eye: Orange eyes, small black pupil
Text: Faces right, left aligned
(C)1988 THE CARNEGIE
SAFARI LTD
TRICERATOPS
9 METERS
Mold line:
Underbody: Splits in front of forelegs. Stays split on either side of text and on legs. Rejoins on underside of tail behind black legs (same as 406-01-??)
Back: Runs continuously down spine (same as 406-01-??)
Head/frill: Runs under and down frill unbroken. Splits between horns. Runs along horns separately. Rejoins between eyes. Runs down nose horn and beak and under chin.
Mold pieces: 4-part mold


I hope that all makes sense, let me know if I should change anything (I will probably revise it to make it easier to read when I have more time.

-theri

(edit: #4006-01 variations will come later today, this is just #406-01)

[webdragon]

Thanks for putting it all together Theri!