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Post by robban on Aug 29, 2011 22:09:27 GMT
Hi guys! Spinosaurus aegyptiacus. Known only from a few remains, most of which were destroyed by allied bombings during WWII. JPIII gave the animal an incredible boost in popularity. Huge, ferocious, a super predator! I stumbled upon this thread here carnivoraforum.com/index.cgi?board=dinosaur&action=display&thread=1979&page=4 on the carnivora forum. I found the claims to be interesting! Granted there's yet no proof that what is said there is true. But for arguments sake, let's say it is true. The reports will be published sonner or later anyways! It seems that these new findings include the hind limbs, which has never been found before. It says that they were much shorter than previously thought. Judging from the pics in the thread it certainly looks different than all other portrayals of it. It is still a large beast no doubt, albeit lower at the hips. Any thoughts on this? |
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Post by dyscrasia on Aug 29, 2011 23:50:15 GMT
Nice.... I hope it gets published soon enough~ Btw, I do find this reconstruction pretty interesting (regardless of accuracy...the proportions do seem to be a bit weird, but looks very real nonetheless)  |
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Post by arioch on Aug 30, 2011 0:04:15 GMT
Can´t say I´m very surprised....It makes sense when you´re a bipedal with a massive body that seems rather difficult to balance that your center of gravity is so low. In other Spinosaurids the legs seem on average shorter than other theropods of similar size.
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Post by paleoferroequine on Aug 30, 2011 0:45:41 GMT
Huh, it has three crests on the head.  built in blinders! |
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Post by simon on Aug 30, 2011 1:00:34 GMT
Nice.... I hope it gets published soon enough~ Btw, I do find this reconstruction pretty interesting (regardless of accuracy...the proportions do seem to be a bit weird, but looks very real nonetheless) ] Where is that model located? I want to find some better profile photos of the neck and head. As far as shorter legs go, I agree, it makes sense. Lower center of gravity is easier to manage when an animal is 50 feet long. The Carcharodontosaurines show the same adaptation. TRex had longer legs, but then I think it was a more agile, faster animal - given the prey in its ecosystem, all of which, save for Ankylosaurus, could move pretty fast, relatively speaking... OTOH, if you're doing mainly stationary "hook fishing" for 9'+ foot fish, or catching lumbering 60-ton sauropods, you don't need the long legs that are required for speed.... |
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Post by arioch on Aug 30, 2011 1:15:13 GMT
Yes the model looks nice but is not exactly accurate. The sail should look more like a fleshy hump and the scales are too big and croc like (those in the belly are somewhat plausible I guess,)
Also, even considering those arguments the legs look way too short. Forelimbs would be almost touching the ground most of the time. Maybe those hindlimbs they found belonged to a subadult. A Carcharodontosaur legs proportions would look better..
I dont mind the small crests though (some Spino skulls reconstructions show similar strecutures, its not entirely unlikely)
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Post by Blade-of-the-Moon on Aug 30, 2011 2:44:17 GMT
Why would croc-like scutes be incorrect ? There are similar " bumps " on theropod skin impressions after all.
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Post by DeadToothCrackKnuckle on Aug 30, 2011 3:40:24 GMT
Nice.... I hope it gets published soon enough~ Btw, I do find this reconstruction pretty interesting (regardless of accuracy...the proportions do seem to be a bit weird, but looks very real nonetheless) ] Where is that model located? I want to find some better profile photos of the neck and head. As far as shorter legs go, I agree, it makes sense. Lower center of gravity is easier to manage when an animal is 50 feet long. The Carcharodontosaurines show the same adaptation. TRex had longer legs, but then I think it was a more agile, faster animal - given the prey in its ecosystem, all of which, save for Ankylosaurus, could move pretty fast, relatively speaking... OTOH, if you're doing mainly stationary "hook fishing" for 9'+ foot fish, or catching lumbering 60-ton sauropods, you don't need the long legs that are required for speed.... The model is located in Courmayeur, Italy una n exhibit called 'Dinosauri in Carne e Ossa' (Dinosaurs in the Flesh). The company that produced that model is called 'Geomodel'. I just love this company's breathtakingly, life-like models that produce. They also produce the most accurate models thus far! Well anyway, I wish that the post gave an actual essay about this wondrous excavation. I can't wait to here Horner's perspective about this find and he releasing it to the public. I wish to here more of this soon (And pictures! ;D). Come on, I can't be totally professional!  |
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Post by arioch on Aug 30, 2011 10:03:06 GMT
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camara
Junior Member
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Post by camara on Aug 30, 2011 10:34:21 GMT
What if the have discovered a full skeleton but they can´t say nothing until the papers are released?? Then that Spino model can be based in that skeleton!
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Post by mmfrankford on Aug 30, 2011 12:39:58 GMT
Odd it looks very "front" heavy. As short as those legs are and the length of the arms makes me wonder if it might have moved around sometimes as a quadruped.
Wonderful recreations, I wish I could see these in person.
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Post by sid on Aug 30, 2011 12:50:09 GMT
The claim is probably true. I visited "Dinosauri in carne e ossa" in March, when the exhibit was in Piacenza (the first pic is from that town, not Courmayeur), and, yes, an italian paleontologist confirmed to me they found some new Spino's remains which showed that it was VERY low on the ground  By the way, that's an impressive exhibit, can't wait to visit it again this September (this time they will be at Pavia); the models ROCK and plus they're quite accurate (remember that the possibility of a sail on Spino's back is equally plausible as the hump), considering what we now know of those critters... The Pachyrinosaurus is simply badass, you should see it with your eyes to feel how much a badass he is ;D |
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Post by arioch on Aug 30, 2011 12:51:01 GMT
It would be impossible for him to go quadrupedal with non pronated hands. Most likely it had longer (and bulkier) hindlimbs. Those doesnt seem capable to support that huge mass, despite their shortness... I just can´t imagine this model in motion convincingly.
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camara
Junior Member
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Post by camara on Aug 30, 2011 13:19:11 GMT
The claim is probably true. I visited "Dinosauri in carne e ossa" in March, when the exhibit was in Piacenza (the first pic is from that town, not Courmayeur), and, yes, an italian paleontologist confirmed to me they found some new Spino's remains which showed that it was VERY low on the ground By the way, that's an impressive exhibit, can't wait to visit it again this September (this time they will be at Pavia); the models ROCK and plus they're quite accurate (remember that the possibility of a sail on Spino's back is equally plausible as the hump), considering what we now know of those critters... The Pachyrinosaurus is simply badass, you should see it with your eyes to feel how much a badass he is ;D I want pics of that exhibit!!!! |
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Post by Blade-of-the-Moon on Aug 30, 2011 14:31:27 GMT
Why would croc-like scutes be incorrect ? There are similar " bumps " on theropod skin impressions after all. There are croc like scales in Concavenators belly (and possibly other carcharodontosaurs) . If you meant Carnotaurus, those are just sparse conical bumps really different from crocs. For the rest of the body the integument is the same than most other scaly dinosaurs: a mosaic of very small and flat scales. If such crocodiliian scales are known from the belly area then I can't why a creative interpretation based on the similarity for the top would be incorrect. Especially for an animal with a similar behavior. |
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Post by mmfrankford on Aug 30, 2011 16:14:54 GMT
Well I feel dumb for not thinking of the hand position. I still think the recreation looks "off". It looks like the center of balance would be in the mid torso, not the hips. It looks like it was way off balance. Now swimming this isn't such a problem. Reminds of the diving ducks that have legs further back on the body, walking on land for them is not as easy.
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Post by arioch on Aug 30, 2011 17:01:39 GMT
Yes, if those remains turn out to be from an adult, then is almost certain than Spinosaurus spent like 95% of the time partially submerged in water like an hippo, swimming around or just standing there waiting for fish or small crocs. Because it wouldnt do it very well on ground, between other things. There are croc like scales in Concavenators belly (and possibly other carcharodontosaurs) . If you meant Carnotaurus, those are just sparse conical bumps really different from crocs. For the rest of the body the integument is the same than most other scaly dinosaurs: a mosaic of very small and flat scales. If such crocodiliian scales are known from the belly area then I can't why a creative interpretation based on the similarity for the top would be incorrect. Especially for an animal with a similar behavior. But there´s no evidence of croc scales outside of said bellies and genera. So the default choice should be what we know from all theropod scaly samples. Even in raisuchians, which are very very close to crocodylians (and have theropod like skulls) the skin shows a similar patern to theropods, only with some rows of small osteoderms. This kind of big, rectangular scale pattern covering the whole body just doesn´t seem to exist outside crocodylia. |
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Post by Horridus on Aug 31, 2011 18:14:44 GMT
It would be impossible for him to go quadrupedal with non pronated hands. Most likely it had longer (and bulkier) hindlimbs. Those doesnt seem capable to support that huge mass, despite their shortness... I just can´t imagine this model in motion convincingly. You may say that, but Majungasaurus would make Spinosaurus look very sensible in the leg department even if it did have such short legs. Check out Scott Hartman's skeletal: fav.me/d1gbu1y |
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Post by arioch on Aug 31, 2011 18:34:58 GMT
Oh, that one. But it doesnt have to deal with the extra mass of a huge hump and long stocky forelimbs...I can picture it walking a bit like a duck.
This Spino looks way more wrong. The upper body seems like 3 times heavier than the tail and rear. Really difficult to keep balance. Maybe if the torso was a bit shorter, or the hump larger around the thighs and tail... Lets wait for the paper, in any case.
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Post by dinoguy2 on Sept 1, 2011 0:07:43 GMT
It would be impossible for him to go quadrupedal with non pronated hands. Most likely it had longer (and bulkier) hindlimbs. Those doesnt seem capable to support that huge mass, despite their shortness... I just can´t imagine this model in motion convincingly. Not if the front limbs are splayed. After all, modern crocs don't have pronated hands either. |
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built in blinders!
