Question for project

[Boa_Noah]

So I plan on making a fantasy aquarium, I plan on using some shapeways figures (the ones done by razh00 specifically) and I'dlike some feedback or suggestions.

I have a rough idea of what I'd like in the tank (3 different species of fish, a couple bottom dwelling critters, a few pieces of flora, etc) but I'm not very well read of prehistoric marine behaviors, which fish are schooling fish, which fish are predatory, which are loners, that sort of thing, those are pretty important when it comes to laying out a proper scene.

As for colors, I have seen a few already painted figures and the general consensus seems to be browns, but for the sake of keeping the scene eye-catching I will be using some more vibrant colors, nothing crazy but a few blues and pinks, maybe yellows and purples, just some 'tropical' highlights.

The actual tank is a 5 gallon (standard, not long or tall variation and not a breeder), we (me and my brother) were thinking of setting the scene in resin, creating a permanent 'liquid' environment but I'm not sure that's such a great idea when neither or us have much history with resins, and if we mess up then it's a permanent mistake.

So yeah, that's all, I plan on making a 5-gallon accurate scale (fish to fish) fantasy aquarium and I'd like some idea's and feedback, thank you.

[sbell]

Sept 13, 2011 2:18:45 GMT Boa_Noah said:

So I plan on making a fantasy aquarium, I plan on using some shapeways figures (the ones done by razh00 specifically) and I'dlike some feedback or suggestions.

I have a rough idea of what I'd like in the tank (3 different species of fish, a couple bottom dwelling critters, a few pieces of flora, etc) but I'm not very well read of prehistoric marine behaviors, which fish are schooling fish, which fish are predatory, which are loners, that sort of thing, those are pretty important when it comes to laying out a proper scene.

As for colors, I have seen a few already painted figures and the general consensus seems to be browns, but for the sake of keeping the scene eye-catching I will be using some more vibrant colors, nothing crazy but a few blues and pinks, maybe yellows and purples, just some 'tropical' highlights.

The actual tank is a 5 gallon (standard, not long or tall variation and not a breeder), we (me and my brother) were thinking of setting the scene in resin, creating a permanent 'liquid' environment but I'm not sure that's such a great idea when neither or us have much history with resins, and if we mess up then it's a permanent mistake.

So yeah, that's all, I plan on making a 5-gallon accurate scale (fish to fish) fantasy aquarium and I'd like some idea's and feedback, thank you.

We're going to need at least a little more information--like geologic age, and if there are particular species you intend to incorporate.

[Boa_Noah]

Well for the fish there are 7 currently made by razh00, I'm fairly certain they are all Devonian period critters, the difficulty comes from them all being so well done. I need 2-3 middle/higher-middle water dwelling fish (preferably 2 different species so one would be a group of 2, the other a singular), I then need a bottom dwelling species (aka one of the larger armored fish from the list, like Bothriolepis or Hemicyclaspis).

Bothriolepis
Pteraspis
Anglaspis
Hoelaspis
Hemicyclaspis
Tauraspis
Doryaspis

As for the substrate I'm personally thinking of a soft whitish grey sand layer with a few sea shells, but I'm not an expert y any means, the actual ancient sea floor could be much more rocky or rough than I picture. Plus I was planning on having a few smaller marine critters to add diversity to the sea floor, but the only small marine critters he has are from the Ediacaran period, I would either have to go with a relatively barren floor or mix-n-match my periods for better diversity.

I'm just uncertain as to how to approach this project, whether I keep it clean and scientifically accurate (to a limited degree of course) or if I go a little wild with my choices.

[brontodocus]

Hi boanoah,

apart from the choice of species, do I understand you right that you are intending to fill a 5 gallon aquarium with clear resin? If so, it would not only cost you probably several hundred $$ for approx. 20 litres of resin but I'm also worried about it because you cannot do this at once since the greater volume of resin you cure at once the more it heats up. For most clear resins you may only pour a layer of less than two centimetres at one time and I believe you should even stay below that if you use that much. But making multiple layers has the disadvantage that you may see the border between individual layers permanently (there are ways to minimize this, though).

Sorry if i may have misunderstood your plan I just wanted to comment here because I was worried about the thought you might intend to cure some 20 litres of polyester resin at once which would not only make the resin block crack but would also be quite dangerous, I guess.

Anyways, polyester resin is quite aggressive and e.g. acrylic colours you might intend to use for colouring the models may be diluted and many materials shapeways uses are not heat resistant. Some resins may also turn yellowish over time, especially if exposed to sunlight.

I know that in Germany (and probably in most other countries) there are stores that sell components to make your own hair gel with (I think it's polyacrylic acid or something). I already thought about similar plans like you, only with gel instead of resin. It would be much cheaper and less dangerous, albeit probably not permanent (I don't know if it works to simply prevent it from evaporation, you'd probably also have to add something against mold and bacteria.

[Boa_Noah]

quite right Brontodocus, that was my worries as well, my brother said otherwise but I myself want to simply hang the models from the canopy of the aquarium (that way I can move the models if/when I grow tired of the positions). The gel is a fantastic alternative (and less costly if I make a mistake) so thank you very much.

at most I would use a little resin to create a permanent subtrate base (to anchor the plant life and/or stones).

[mmfrankford]

Instead of a 5 gallon aquarium, you can make a miniaturized aquarium using aquarium sealant and cut glass/acrylic. It would use a lot less resin.

[dinonikes]

I have done A LOT of such projects using clear resin since 1986- believe me it is a lot harder than it sounds to create what you describe here- brontodocus has already touched on some of the issues above- another issue is that when pouring thick embedments in layers the visual clarity may not be what you expect -you would be better off with your hanging idea, as it will not ruin the figures either- another alternative would be to use multiple layers of clear acrylic plexiglass, you could attached the figures to different layers, I have also used this method in art projects yto create floating dioramic elements-
here is an example of one of the dimensional surrealistic collages embedded in clear resin that I have done- I like to use toys, natural elements, found objects and arrange them in space using the clear resin to hold them forever in position-I pour in multiple layers (I have poured layers up to one inch thick or more,you just have to use very little catalyst and have the patience to wait a long time for it to set up) you cannot get rid of the lines on the sides caused by the multiple layered pours-just not possible to eliminate them, but I dont care as I mount these in display boxes anyways with lights usually lit by push buttons-

this piece features the seed pods of the Jimson weed, the seeds of which contain a dangerous hallucenigenic- it grows like a weed in Chicago and every summer there are stories on the news of teenagers poisoned from the seeds- I found this plant growing in town right at the corner of a busy intersection- I was able to have the seeds floating out of the pods using the multiple pour technique, with alot of control as to the positioning of the individual elements-

[Boa_Noah]

Thank you both for the great idea's, I will keep both in mind for future projects (also that piece is very striking dinonikes, I like the way everything came together).

But I was more asking for idea's and help with the actual scene rather than the method or portraying it (though I appreciate any and all help as well).

[sbell]

Sept 13, 2011 14:22:23 GMT Boa_Noah said:

Thank you both for the great idea's, I will keep both in mind for future projects (also that piece is very striking dinonikes, I like the way everything came together).

But I was more asking for idea's and help with the actual scene rather than the method or portraying it (though I appreciate any and all help as well).

Well, depending on how accurate you want to be, you will need to leave Borthiolepis out--it was primarily (exclusively?) freshwater, and lived in the late Devonian; the others are early Devonian, and often came from similar places (several are found in the same localities).

As for swimmers, the Pteraspis is the most likely swimmer, although the others may have been as well. There's a good chance that most of them spent the majority of their time filtering the mud on the bottom.

[Boa_Noah]

Hmm, it's good to know that I could use Pteraspis, would they have schooled or would they have tried to remain separate? would it be unlikely to see an Anglaspis spending it's time above the sea-floor? not much higher but enough room to differentiate it from the bottom dweller? and on the subject of the star attraction, which of the remaining 'larger' specimens would be an excellent loafer/casual swimmer?

For flora should I be too worried about being 100% accurate or could I use some fake plants from a pet store or michaels and still pull off a 'realistic' look?

[sbell]

Sept 13, 2011 17:47:12 GMT Boa_Noah said:

Hmm, it's good to know that I could use Pteraspis, would they have schooled or would they have tried to remain separate? would it be unlikely to see an Anglaspis spending it's time above the sea-floor? not much higher but enough room to differentiate it from the bottom dweller? and on the subject of the star attraction, which of the remaining 'larger' specimens would be an excellent loafer/casual swimmer?

For flora should I be too worried about being 100% accurate or could I use some fake plants from a pet store or michaels and still pull off a 'realistic' look?

From what I can tell, there isn't much in the way of aquatic plant life (marine) at the time. You would be looking more for algaes. Instead, you may need to recreate the reef instead--fan-shaped bryozoans, brachiopods, graptolites, crinoids and their cousins, sponges, and rugose and tabulate corals.

As for the 'main star'--Gemuendina is from roughly the same time and place, but would likely still be a bottom-dweller. The other long-bodied fish that have been made (Tauraspis, Doryaspis, Hoelaspis) were probably better suited to brief time off the ground than Anglaspis.

Your other possibility is a nautiloid, which would have been more likely as a large presence in the water column. Probably a straight one like Rayonnoceras or Orthoceras. I also found reference to an acanthodiian Machaeracanthus, but those are not exactly common as models (razH00, where are you now!!!??).

[Boa_Noah]

Thank you sbell, if you don't mind, do you know of any good pictures that could help with the kind of corals, sponges, crinoids, etc that were present in that time? I doubt they would be the same kind of corals (and stuff) as found today (but if they are pretty similiar then it would be awesome to simulate a vibrant coral (and stuff) reef).

Also, do you know of anyone who makes nautiloid models? I'm personally not as big a fan of them as most people are but if I can find one that fits the same kind of quality of the other figures then I will definitely consider it heavily.

Oh, and do you have any idea's for what I could use as 'scenery' critters? like how many trilobites are used as detail pieces in Burgess Shale diorama's.

[paleoferroequine]

These are from Karen Carr.com Gives an idea about the reef. All are Devonian, well Stethacanthus would be very, very late Devonian maybe, but probably Early Carboniferous so might not work. There are other pictures with Google images.

[Boa_Noah]

Thank you Paleoferroequine, that second image will help me greatly, I have a few pieces of blue coral (plastic, not actual) that I can use, the horn-like coral things will e a little more difficult to recreate but I'm sure I can find something, the rest is easy enough to replicate.

The clams and snail will also add a nice diversity.

[sbell]

Sept 14, 2011 3:05:49 GMT Boa_Noah said:

Thank you Paleoferroequine, that second image will help me greatly, I have a few pieces of blue coral (plastic, not actual) that I can use, the horn-like coral things will e a little more difficult to recreate but I'm sure I can find something, the rest is easy enough to replicate.

The clams and snail will also add a nice diversity.

Just to be clear, the fish in all of the pictures are probably far too advanced for the same waters as the various agnathans. Keep in mind that those round rocks are also corals, just colonial ones. And if you want to get really technical, they aren't like modern ones (but who could tell in a diorama setting anyway.

[Boa_Noah]

I know, it's the main problem I face, lol, none of the currently made coral or reef ornaments would ever match up with a devonian reef, most of the corals and setting will have to be hobbled together for something that bears any resemblance.

I'm so far decided on 2 reef pieces in the tank (one larger piece on the left side and a smaller corner piece on the right), the bottom dweller will be situated between the corals while the Pteraspis will be slightly above the tallest coral piece (possibly two of them, one lower than the other to give them a sense of schooling and direction), the scenery critters will also have to hobbled (or I can improvise with some of razh's earlier and smaller critters).

So now that I have a 'scene' I just need the actors, I need a loafer who can be resting or feeding upon the seabed and a middle man, someone/something that can be used as a casual swimmer that is neither in a rush or hurry and is merely passing through the scene (as was suggested to be a nautiloid or other fish).

[Boa_Noah]

Oh, could anyone give me some size details? the most I can find is the sizes of Pteraspis, Bothriolepis, and Hemicyclaspis according to wiki, and they are actually much smaller than I had originally thought (I never would have guessed that Hemicyclaspis was so small).

[paleoferroequine]

Sept 14, 2011 8:38:02 GMT Boa_Noah said:

Oh, could anyone give me some size details? the most I can find is the sizes of Pteraspis, Bothriolepis, and Hemicyclaspis according to wiki, and they are actually much smaller than I had originally thought (I never would have guessed that Hemicyclaspis was so small).

Don't know if these will help but are useful.
www.devoniantimes.org/index.html
This blog is by a seven year old! He compiles the info and his mother enters it. Actually pretty good.
www.lifebeforethedinosaurs.com/
Oh, Doryaspis and Anglaspis are 6in/15cm long.

[Boa_Noah]

oh wow, that is impressive, I just hope he keeps his interests in the field, and it is extremely useful knowing the sizes of Anglaspis and Doryaspis, the only two left are Tauraspis and Hoelaspis.

[Boa_Noah]

I just saw Eric's ammonite sculpture on Shapeways, does anyone know the scale on them? also is the Megacrioceras a devonian critter? could I modify either of them (the Megacrioceras or the Heteroceras) to look like a devonian specimen?