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Post by Dinotoyforum on Sept 29, 2011 10:18:43 GMT
I've been following the discussion on the new 2012 releases thread and it seemed appropriate to discuss the DTF's policy on leaked info, because this issue will come up every year. Basically, we don't have a policy at the moment. To quote my response from the aforementioned thread:
"I don't know how much control a toy company can expect to have over a public forum such as this. We are just a portal for communication. The forum isn't responsible for any leaked information, the posters are, and it's at their discretion, not ours, what they decide to post on the forum. Generally, It isn't a moderator's place to edit or delete forum posts unless they break forum rules, and I suppose the companies can count really themselves lucky that one of the mods (Sbell) here has the time and inclination to filter through the posts for possibly 'sensitive' information. But this is not forum policy, not at present anyway. There is scope for discussion on this topic and I'm interetsed in your thoughts - do we, as a forum, have any responsibility for information imparted through us?"
So, thoughts? I'd be very interested to hear from the companies here too.
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Post by Mauro "Raptor86" on Sept 29, 2011 10:23:25 GMT
Just to say that in an other forum they're already talking about the 4 dinosaurs in the sneak peek catalogue. Once the info is online, it spreads like a virus
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Post by dinodinkies on Sept 29, 2011 15:09:59 GMT
Well, i say once leaked is leaked. I was silent about the Facebook revelation. But why delete posts about it. Leaked is leaked. Let the once who are silent be silent. And the ones who tell just tell. I think it isn't a crime to tell, because there are more forums. So sooner or later we Will find out. I can understand that one wants to tell about it. Because it is fun, we love dinosaurs, dinosaur toys. So why not.
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Post by simon on Sept 29, 2011 15:56:33 GMT
Well, i say once leaked is leaked. I was silent about the Facebook revelation. But why delete posts about it. Leaked is leaked. Let the once who are silent be silent. And the ones who tell just tell. I think it isn't a crime to tell, because there are more forums. So sooner or later we Will find out. I can understand that one wants to tell about it. Because it is fun, we love dinosaurs, dinosaur toys. So why not. Well, considering that this board is run by someone who is a retailer (ie runs a store in his museum that sells Safari), I think you can understand why the posts should be deleted. As it should be.
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Post by Libraraptor on Sept 29, 2011 16:07:35 GMT
Adam, I´m with your opinion about that we´re just the forum that offers the place for discussion. We´re only responsible for forum rules, not for the content. Okay, if the content breaks forum rules, it´s a different story, then we should be active. But hm, leaked information is not exactly an offense against forum rules, so I claim for freedom here concerning this. simon, as far as I know Adam doesn´t run a museum shop.
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Post by ikessauro on Sept 29, 2011 16:58:21 GMT
Well, i say once leaked is leaked. I was silent about the Facebook revelation. But why delete posts about it. Leaked is leaked. Let the once who are silent be silent. And the ones who tell just tell. I think it isn't a crime to tell, because there are more forums. So sooner or later we Will find out. I can understand that one wants to tell about it. Because it is fun, we love dinosaurs, dinosaur toys. So why not. I agree! I don't get why do we use a forum if we can't discuss stuff! If Safari doesn't want info to leak, please, stop sending previews to the retailers. Papo doesn't do that AFAIK and we have no problem with that. The info on Papo models usually comes out later than other companies and no one is blamed for info when it leaks. I'm tired of the bla bla bla about companies competition and one stealing ideias from another. If they reveal info to some people outside of the company, even a small group, eventually one will speak! Remember, every one has someone to trust the info, and if you trust info to a guy, he'll share with his best friend e it ends up spreading through internet. I don't think deleting posts is a good and wise ideia. That's pure censure of what can and can't be said. If the forum had policies regarding leaked information and we knew about it prior to the leaking, then i would be ok with Sbell's decision of deleting the comments. I understand his position, he know stuff before others do and likes it. If everyone starts to talk, he will loose the privilege of receiving the previews, as others retailers will. But if knowing earlier isn't that important, why retailers have to? They aren't allowed to show the previews neither can they sell the figures or even talk about a species or small clues of what is coming. What's the big advantage in that? If I were SAfari, wouldn't release anything for retaliers early... If early October is the time for unveilling the new figures, that's when everyone should know.
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Post by Seijun on Sept 29, 2011 17:11:47 GMT
I agree that safari should not be sending previews to retailers if they don't want people to talk about it. But on the other hand, maybe it is in the forum's best interest to stay on Safari's good side? Didn't someone mention that they do take our suggestions and criticism into account?
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Post by Mauro "Raptor86" on Sept 29, 2011 17:27:18 GMT
I think that Safari must take care of what we think and not vice versa! It seems like retailers here are afraid of loosing something from Safari ltd. while it should be the contrary...they PAY for safari products...
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Post by crackington on Sept 29, 2011 17:50:10 GMT
Has anyone from Safari or other company actually complained?
I'm against censorship generally, but can see that a forum has to be careful if it gets into legal murky waters.
That said, surely the companies can see that the forum is a good thing and can only encourage their sales? Coming down on individual posters spilling a few beans would be the proverbial sledge-hammer to crack a nut.
I should also say on another tangent, that the forum is well moderated with mostly good intelligent discussions/people. I regularly view (not contribute to) a football forum where the abuse, slander and malicious gossip regularly posted should be seen to be believed - they could do with some of the Dino mods to clean themselves up!
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Post by ikessauro on Sept 29, 2011 17:50:14 GMT
I think that Safari must take care of what we think and not vice versa! It seems like retailers here are afraid of loosing something from Safari ltd. while it should be the contrary...they PAY for safari products... Exactly.
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Post by Meso-Cenozoic on Sept 29, 2011 18:37:49 GMT
Well, I guess I see both sides of the coin.
First, I can understand why pre-release info shouldn't be on a forum like this. It's not because of all of us who regularly visit, but, I tend to think other competitive toy companies probably have scouts that visit sites like these. So, if this is Safari's concern, I can understand their reasoning. To a point....
Which brings me to the second side of the coin. If the info has already been leaked onto the internet, then the cat's outta the bag for anyone to see. I don't see any reason then to not be able to discuss it here.
I do also understand the reasoning to try and stop the info from spreading by not having it spread onto a specific toy-related site such as this one. But, if we're talking about the info coming out officially in October anyway (October starts this weekend), then, I don't think it's probably that big of a deal now this late in the game. I mean, if Safari's main concern is not letting other competitive companies see their new stuff too early for fear of them stealing ideas and such, I think if Safari is releasing the info themselves anyway in a week or so, then I don't see a real concern for the timeline anymore.
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Post by simon on Sept 29, 2011 18:52:57 GMT
Adam, I´m with your opinion about that we´re just the forum that offers the place for discussion. We´re only responsible for forum rules, not for the content. Okay, if the content breaks forum rules, it´s a different story, then we should be active. But hm, leaked information is not exactly an offense against forum rules, so I claim for freedom here concerning this. simon, as far as I know Adam doesn´t run a museum shop. I was referring to SBell, who is the head Moderator ... minor problem with word choice ....
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Post by ikessauro on Sept 29, 2011 19:49:15 GMT
Has anyone from Safari or other company actually complained? I'm against censorship generally, but can see that a forum has to be careful if it gets into legal murky waters. Yeah, but imagine if the companies start to rule the forums. Not directly but through moderators or by threatening to blame the forum for a leaked information ... I would rather stop using the forum than to accept a lot of desnecessary rules. We didn't ask Safari in name of the forum for information and mostly important, we didn't said we would keep any secrets. SBell probably did. The other retailers also did it. Only because certain retailers use the forum, the rest of the users can't publish any leaked info? I didn't made an agreemment with Safari saying I would shut up. It's just not fair.
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Post by Allosaurus89 on Sept 29, 2011 19:59:19 GMT
I agree that safari should not be sending previews to retailers if they don't want people to talk about it. But on the other hand, maybe it is in the forum's best interest to stay on Safari's good side? Didn't someone mention that they do take our suggestions and criticism into account? Even if the forum leaked info, they are still a company out there trying to make money, it wouldn't be a good idea to ignore our feedback simply because there was a leak on the forum. I think quite frankly if they don't want to risk leaks, the best options would be not to release info to retailers before they release to the general public, they know the risks as I'm sure anyone does. Also, although I did see the leaked info, and keeping quiet about what I saw, I also never signed any sort of agreement with this forum or safari, and feel that if I decided to open my mouth about what I saw, I can do so without moderators or admins altering my posts. I mean, the fact is, if someone else said something, what are the retailers on here worried about if it wasn't them?
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Post by postsaurischian on Sept 29, 2011 20:20:02 GMT
It should even be one of the main goals here to disclose any secret about any Dinosaur figure ;D!!Honestly - what is a Dinosaur Toy Forum about anyway? It hurts my DTF-pride to see that the new figures are being discussed on other forums while we have to keep silent ;D!!
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Post by dinodinkies on Sept 29, 2011 21:08:26 GMT
It should even be one of the main goals here to disclose any secret about any Dinosaur figure ;D!!Honestly - what is a Dinosaur Toy Forum about anyway? It hurts my DTF-pride to see that the new figures are being discussed on other forums while we have to keep silent ;D!! Did they show pictures hahaha. And that is the problem. When they can't talk about it on this forum. They Will on another where they can discuss it freely. But i think this is not a store. We are not retailers. Ok some of us are, but don't project your ideals on others because the information is classified to oneself. And i wouldn't see why safari Ltd would be mad at dino fans going at 365 miles per hour about their products. They should be at the ones that released it. If they swore to be silent.
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Post by paleoferroequine on Sept 29, 2011 22:42:03 GMT
My opinion. I have a store and my main stuff is trains and plastic models. In these lines announcements(with line drawings or photos) are made up to 8 months before sales . This is to everybody so that interest is hyped up. I don't see why Safari would release advance notice to retailers only. It's presumably to gauge response for advance orders, but if customers don't know, then how does a retailer know if there is any interest? It wouldn't surprise me if Safari expects the leaks just to drum up interest since the "advance " knowledge isn't that early. If they don't want it leaked then don't tell the retailers, the advance knowledge doesn't seem to help them. My two clacks worth.
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Post by Libraraptor on Sept 30, 2011 7:28:12 GMT
Adam, I´m with your opinion about that we´re just the forum that offers the place for discussion. We´re only responsible for forum rules, not for the content. Okay, if the content breaks forum rules, it´s a different story, then we should be active. But hm, leaked information is not exactly an offense against forum rules, so I claim for freedom here concerning this. simon, as far as I know Adam doesn´t run a museum shop. I was referring to SBell, who is the head Moderator ... minor problem with word choice .... Okay, now I see, sorry for that.
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Post by sbell on Sept 30, 2011 16:19:56 GMT
Fine. I won't do anything about it anymore. Of course, I won't get involved with actually telling anything I know either.
I would like to remind people that Safari had enough respect for this forum to ask what we would like to see in 2009 (when 2011 decisions were made)--and this year we got Inostrancevia, Edmontosaurus, prehistoric shark toob, prehistoric crocodile toob, and Kaprosuchus--even the much-improved T.rex. Those were suggested from here (although many of you are likely too new to recall that). And if there is a 5th Wild Safari, I could likely guess it (but don't know if it even exists, it just seems to be their pattern).
Its kind of cool to have opinions that people want to hear--but at the same time, you have to respect what they have asked as well. What other forum had the same kind of impact on the 2011 products?
And I'm not a 'head' moderator--I just come through fairly regularly.
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Post by stemturtle on Sept 30, 2011 18:55:08 GMT
Fine. I won't do anything about it anymore. Of course, I won't get involved with actually telling anything I know either. Sbell, thank you for contributing to our hobby: your service as a moderator, exercise of good judgment, sharing photos of your huge collection, extensive knowledge of paleontology and of dinosaur toys, and for my favorite toob figures Chasmatosaurus and Champsosaurus. 41 years of marriage have taught me that it takes 5 positive statements to balance one criticism.
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