weaver
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Post by weaver on Oct 30, 2011 18:52:18 GMT
Say folks, I think I've covered my bases on research I want to use in my English class argumentive-research paper but I'd like some help from you folks. I'm putting this in the Dinosaur/General Paleontology topic since it kinda relates to that and well, I didn't get much help with the last post.
Your Mission:
I'd like to see what you think are some great research-papers/articles about dinosaur temperature-regulation/temperature? All positions are wanted (endo or ecto supporting/not-supporting and research on all different species is wanted) and appreciated.
I'd really like the full-text (if published in a journal) since I currently lack access to them. Basically, if you think there is a great article out there that talks about this I'd love a link to it.
All help is greatly appreciated.
~Weaver
[Edit: Non-feathered dinos are the subject here.]
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Post by Horridus on Oct 30, 2011 19:06:48 GMT
Your Mission: I'd like to see what you think are some great research-papers/articles about dinosaur temperature-regulation/temperature? All positions are wanted (endo or ecto supporting/not-supporting and research on all different species is wanted) and appreciated. ~Weaver Is this only for dinosaurs that lacked feathers? (Since it's obvious how they regulate their body temperature.) I know there's been research on the matter of growth rings and metabolism and so on, but I'll have to go on a hunt (unless someone else gets there first, which they probably will!). |
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weaver
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Post by weaver on Oct 30, 2011 19:37:12 GMT
Yep. Non-feathered dinos are the subject here. I really had to struggle to find just two sources and they're not the greatest so any help for better sources is appreciated.
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Post by eriorguez on Oct 30, 2011 21:25:24 GMT
We have evidence for CROCODILIANS being warm-blooded animals adapted to have a cold-blooded metabolism. The common ancestor of crocodiles and dinosaurs was warm blooded to a degree.
As a rule of thumb, if crocs and birds have it, so do dinosaurs.
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Post by stemturtle on Oct 30, 2011 21:29:21 GMT
Lane suggests that theropods did not need to be hot-blooded because they had efficient lungs functioning like an aspiration pump to provide stamina to the hunter. Nice overview from a biochemist.
Chapter 8, “Hot Blood,” in “Life Ascending, the Ten Great Inventions of Evolution,” by Nick Lane (Norton and Co., New York, 2009).
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Post by DeadToothCrackKnuckle on Oct 30, 2011 22:52:21 GMT
"Dinosaur Oddysey" by Scott D. Sampson is an extremely good reference for this topic. He stated that dinosaurs were neither ectotherm or endotherm, but mesotherm.
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weaver
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Post by weaver on Oct 31, 2011 0:07:06 GMT
Ooo! Good sources Stemturtle and DeadTooth. I'll look those up real-quick.
More sources? I'd like lots more!
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Post by stemturtle on Oct 31, 2011 0:34:55 GMT
Here is an article mentioned in the bibliography of "Life Ascending:" F. Seebacher, "Dinosaur body temperatures: the occurrence of endothermy and ectothermy", "Paleobiology" 29: 105-22; 2003. findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa4067/is_200301/ai_n9171513/P.S. I should have said cited rather than mentioned in the bibliography. |
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weaver
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Post by weaver on Oct 31, 2011 1:29:54 GMT
I actually had found that article but it's in "Life Ascending"? I did not realize that! Awesome Stemturtle! Thank you!
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Post by Griffin on Oct 31, 2011 18:41:25 GMT
Lane suggests that theropods did not need to be hot-blooded because they had efficient lungs functioning like an aspiration pump to provide stamina to the hunter. Nice overview from a biochemist. Chapter 8, “Hot Blood,” in “Life Ascending, the Ten Great Inventions of Evolution,” by Nick Lane (Norton and Co., New York, 2009). I got to meet Nick Lane a few years ago when his book first came out. He met with my lab group (that was working with reptile metabolisms at the time). Very knowledgeable and nice guy. He mentions Therizinosaurs in his book if I remember correctly. |
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weaver
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Post by weaver on Oct 31, 2011 21:56:36 GMT
Oh gosh, thank you so much folks! You really came through for me on great sources for citations and information. Thank you so much. If any of you have other sources worth looking at please post em here.  |
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Post by bowheadwhale on Nov 9, 2011 19:43:05 GMT
I think they were warm-blooded. Why? Simply because, considering their large sizes, cold-blooded metabolism would have been incredibly unpracticle. Imagine the long hours it would have taken them to warm up to accurate temperature to activate themselves every morning... Not much time per day would have been left to them to feed, mate, or just move. No, to do everything they were meant to do, they had to be warm-blooded. They would have spent too much time as lethargic zombies if they hadn't been. What do you think?
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Post by Horridus on Nov 9, 2011 19:45:54 GMT
All the research seems to indicate that it wasn't as cut and dried as warm blooded/cold blooded. I heard about some research presented at SVP that concluded that T. rex was 'warm blooded' in a sense, as it generated heat internally, but that its body temperature could still vary considerably. It seems that nonavian dinosaurs had a unique physiology, not present in the world today.
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Post by eriorguez on Nov 9, 2011 21:22:18 GMT
Well, take a look at monotremes. Or ratite chicks.
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Post by bowheadwhale on Nov 10, 2011 19:48:21 GMT
That's very possible. Many prehistoric species don't have any modern counterparts; so it's indeed possible to me that in-between cold-warm blooded metabolisms were once very common.
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weaver
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Post by weaver on Nov 11, 2011 9:50:01 GMT
That's where my paper is leaning, towards a middle-ground answer. Again, thank you folks for all the great sources and feel free to add more if you find something particularly nice. I seem to have such trouble looking up sources on my schools EBSCOhost thingy.
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Post by bowheadwhale on Nov 15, 2011 20:20:28 GMT
You're welcome! Of course, here in the local library, sources about prehistory lack a lot. Did you know that in the library where I'm sitting right now, 90% of the prehistory books available are located in the CHILDREN BOOKS SHELVES? Almost nothing about paleonthology in the shelves for grown-ups!!!
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weaver
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Post by weaver on Nov 18, 2011 20:32:14 GMT
Aww thanks Bowhead! Exactly, c'mon. Everyone likes dinosaurs not just the kiddies. Hmm. Librarians look at you weird and go all 'Aww, is this for your little one?'. Not they are not. They are for me. XD
If you guys find anything that I should know about NOW I would love to see it. I'm finishing up my first draft of the paper. So tired.
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Post by dinoguy2 on Nov 19, 2011 19:38:14 GMT
That's where my paper is leaning, towards a middle-ground answer. Again, thank you folks for all the great sources and feel free to add more if you find something particularly nice. I seem to have such trouble looking up sources on my schools EBSCOhost thingy. I would say semi-warmblooded isn't a middle ground answer, at least not anymore. Does anybody actually argue that dinos were fully cold-blooded anymore? I think non-cold blooded but maybe not similar to modern birds/mammals is the universally accepted baseline. There really hasn't been any such thing as a cold vs. warm blooded debate since the 80s at least. Today it's not really a debate at all, just various studies trying to figure out what level of warm-bloodedness was present. Not that it's a bad topic for an argumentative essay, but you want to make sure you're not arguing against a straw man position. A key point of argument is making sure that you accurately represent the opinions of the opposing position. |
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weaver
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Post by weaver on Nov 20, 2011 7:10:13 GMT
Already submitted Dinoguy, and it actually is more of a research paper to show how the argument has changed over the years.
And she gave me an A too. Oh boy. Only revisions are my grammer mistakes. She wants every sentence-ending punctuation to have two-space after it. I've never had a teacher in English format a paper like that.
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