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Post by arioch on Jan 7, 2009 2:00:42 GMT
Yeah, but i mean, the jaws are virtually the only weapon to kill of a tyrannosaur and are much more exposed in the attack than any one of the mammals, hyenas and that. That lips could be seriously hurted when he bites the crest of a triceratops, the horns (there are fossil evidences which prove rex made it), or the back of an ankylosaur (wich is made of bones that a rex could crush)...just an speculation, though the lips theory is probably right.
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Post by ningishzida on Jan 9, 2009 8:54:22 GMT
Yeah, but i mean, the jaws are virtually the only weapon to kill of a tyrannosaur and are much more exposed in the attack than any one of the mammals, hyenas and that. That lips could be seriously hurted when he bites the crest of a triceratops, the horns (there are fossil evidences which prove rex made it), or the back of an ankylosaur (wich is made of bones that a rex could crush)...just an speculation, though the lips theory is probably right. But don't you realize that carnivorous mammals also crush bones in their jaws, but do not mangle their lips? In fact, the dinsosaurs, like lizards, would have much tougher lips than mammals because they are covered in protective scales.
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Post by arioch on Jan 9, 2009 11:01:18 GMT
Thats what i say that i don´t completely disagree with the theory, but some aggravating circumstance in the case of tyrannosaurids make me doubt. Mammals don´t chase scaled big prey, with horns and bone spikes, but another "soft" mammals (mostly horned, tough more undefended). And the way they use their jaws is completely different, they don´t charge with it.
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Post by [][][]cordylus[][][] on Jan 10, 2009 22:12:25 GMT
Yeah, but i mean, the jaws are virtually the only weapon to kill of a tyrannosaur and are much more exposed in the attack than any one of the mammals, hyenas and that. That lips could be seriously hurted when he bites the crest of a triceratops, the horns (there are fossil evidences which prove rex made it), or the back of an ankylosaur (wich is made of bones that a rex could crush)...just an speculation, though the lips theory is probably right. But don't you realize that carnivorous mammals also crush bones in their jaws, but do not mangle their lips? In fact, the dinsosaurs, like lizards, would have much tougher lips than mammals because they are covered in protective scales. Still, lips could be open to infection, which is pretty common among reptiles today. My african fat tailed gecko got a mouth infection once. How? Not from improper husbandary, but because her lip got cut on a cricket's leg spurs.
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Post by Tyrannax on Jan 11, 2009 3:08:41 GMT
Really? Wow Cordylus, don't feel like the lone ranger. My Skink got an infection on its lips too, and this is because its tank was contaminated with cedar. Why? Because my dad built a wooden hide out of it! I asked him if it was cedar and he said no! ;D Why didn't I smell it?
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Post by ningishzida on Jan 12, 2009 0:14:44 GMT
Lips keep animals from dehydrating. Crocs don't need them because they live in the water, but every other reptile has lips, or tightly sealing beaks, so their mouths won't dry out. Dinos should be no different.
BRW TR's pic Avatar is a rex sculpted with lips. If that mouth were closed you would not see the teeth, and the skull has been fleshed out a bit so it doesn't have the dried skin stretched over the skull, 'zombie' look.
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Post by Tyrannax on Jan 12, 2009 1:18:20 GMT
But Tyrannosaurus' overbite would basically "force" its teeth to overlap its mouth.
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airot
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Post by airot on Jan 13, 2009 11:06:12 GMT
I don't see any evidence for the lips. Here's how I see the train of thought: T-Rex had big teeth. Squamates have big teeth and lips. Therefore, T-rex had big lips. You're missing part of the thought train - T.Rex had big teeth. Salthingyer crocodile and Komodo dragon had big teeth. One has lips, one doesn't. Komodo dragon and T.Rex both have blood vessel holes, so T.Rex must have lips. HOWEVER, I don't see conclusive evidence there because if you compare this komodo dragon skull www.skullsunlimited.com/graphics/bc-39-lg.jpg with this crocodile skull www.skullsunlimited.com/graphics/tq-269-lg.jpg with this T.Rex skull (warning, absolutely massive picture) www.michaelcovel.com/images/trex_155.JPG you will notice that the crocodile's blood vessel holes more closely resemble the t.rex's than the komodo dragon's do. The large number of holes seem to have nothing to do with possessing lips. I think the argument in that article posted was a little more persuasive - such a large terrestrial animal would probably have problems with dehydration if it didn't have the ability to seal it's mouth. A crocodile lives in the water so it won't have any troubles, but a komodo dragon and a t.rex? They sure will. Especially the t.rex, being so BIG and having such a large mouth. That's a lot of surface area for liquids to evaporate from. And Arioch; Lions do 'charge with their teeth'. They go for the throat or spine with the teeth and hang on with the legs, whether hanging on is hanging on to the animal or the ground. They are also prone to infections if they are wounded on their lips, but they are smart enough to attack weaker animals in their soft spots not their horrible pointy hard spots. As if a t.rex is actually going to try biting a triceratops on it's crest - it wouldn't be lethal, and it probably wouldn't hurt the triceratops much. Plus it would put the t.rex's neck in the way of the triceratops's horns. The t.rex would be MUCH better off going for the spine. Edit; salthingyer? What the? I said 'salt water' without a space. Word filters are SO annoying.
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Post by Dinotoyforum on Jan 13, 2009 11:40:10 GMT
Edit; salthingyer? What the? I said 'salt water' without a space. Word filters are SO annoying. Tell me about it. You can't even say s p o o n around these parts spoon! see! ;D
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airot
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Post by airot on Jan 13, 2009 12:06:51 GMT
I just noticed I missed a page of this thread, so most of my post was redundant. Oh well. At least I managed to start a discussion about retarded censorship. We're all supposed to be responsible intelligent human beings, so why can't we look at words like sp oon? I'm guessing poor Charles Dickins will have his name censored too. (edit; it isn't! oh my! my eyes are bleeding due to the offense this has caused! ) Sure it might be mildly unpleasant to see sp oon without the S, but does it really warrant censorship? How are we to refer to such things in a worksafe manner when it's necessary if the milder less uh, explicit words are all unacceptable? I'm sure there could be room for a topic about dinosaurs mating habits, if there isn't one already. Should we all just start speaking newspeak instead? I wonder if 'dork' is censored? Being an insult regarding a whale's hoo-hah, and all, it should be. It will be doubleplussungood if it isn't. Also, to keep this related; I think dinosaurs had lips. Prove me wrong YOU CAN'T HAHAHAHAHAHA! Though I can't prove the opposition wrong anyway, so it's all drama and speculation.
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Post by ningishzida on Jan 13, 2009 12:32:26 GMT
But Tyrannosaurus' overbite would basically "force" its teeth to overlap its mouth. No. Crocodile monitors have teeth proportionately as long as rex, and they overbite the same way, but there are deep grooves in the gums where they fit. The same for snakes. Your Avatar Rex was sculpted with definate lips. If it did not have those groove, the top teeth would cut into the bottom lips which you can see, protrude out at least an inch, probably more.. The lips should actually stick out a bit more, to allow room for the grooves for the top teeth to fit into. But this sculptor had the right idea, understood the lips idea, and the head doesn't look like a skin covered skull like many other reconstructions (zombie rex). Rexes lived in the place where mummy hadrosaurs are being found, so maybe one day we will find a mummy rex, and then all of this will be resolved. But the bulk of evidence we have now, clearly suggest they had lips, and as for other theropods, the thin slicing teeth are virtually identical to those of monitor lizards, and there can be little doubt at all about their lips. Virtually everyone gives their smaller theropods lips already. The only exception might be spino, whose jaws are so similar to a crocs, and seems to have led a semi aquatic lifestyle like a croc.
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Post by arioch on Jan 13, 2009 13:03:56 GMT
You still insisting in the similarities between spinosaurids and crocodiles after the evidences we brought?
.....
: cry desperately:
;D
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airot
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Post by airot on Jan 14, 2009 11:11:26 GMT
Hey hey, what if t.rex had jowls like a dog? Or look at this cat skull www.skullsunlimited.com/graphics/sm-090-lg.jpg, cats have lips despite their long canines! Those are both efficient enough predators, and my cat eats lizards. I try to stop him, but he won't listen to me - and his lips CAN withstand scales! Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, lots of predatory animals have lips despite any risk of infection. Some even have stupidly pronounced lips like great danes. It's totally possible for the t.rex's massive overbite to be covered (even if only partially, my kittie's teeth stick out from under his lips) with lips that don't interfere with eating/fighting etc, and there's no reason a t.rex wouldn't have lips other than 'it's uncool'. Anyway, lips are sexy, made for kissin'. Would you kiss a t.rex with no lips? ME NEITHER.
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Post by ningishzida on Jan 14, 2009 13:11:38 GMT
You still insisting in the similarities between spinosaurids and crocodiles after the evidences we brought? ..... : cry desperately: ;D You've brought nothing that could refute anything I have stated here.
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Post by Tyrannax on Jan 14, 2009 19:29:28 GMT
Arguing over lips is like arguing over if Tyrannosaurus was green or blue! Until you find fossilized tissue over those teeth, let's not get our hopes up.
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Post by sid on Jan 14, 2009 22:20:07 GMT
Arguing over lips is like arguing over if Tyrannosaurus was green or blue! Until you find fossilized tissue over those teeth, let's not get our hopes up. Agree ;D
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Post by Tyrannax on Jan 15, 2009 4:09:22 GMT
^ At least someone does. ;D
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