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Post by therizinosaurus on Aug 9, 2009 15:13:51 GMT
 Animals, what about the way China treats it's people? Nothing enrages me more than skinning dogs alive, tieing live animals up with wire in markets or cooking them alive and such like .............................. I don't think you can deal with the way people treat each other until peoples attitudes towards the rest of life on Earth are sorted out really. With that in mind, I do find myself questioning the the fact that I buy toys which are largely manufactured in such a nasty place when I have phased out virtually everything else produced there from what I buy in daily life (I avoid anything tested on animals as well). I am of course aware that animal cruelty is a global issue (exquisite marine life toys from Japan vs chopping up marine mammals in the name of science etc ) but it seems to be particularly pernicious in China and other areas of Asia. "I am of course aware that animal cruelty is a global issue (exquisite marine life toys from Japan vs chopping up marine mammals in the name of science etc ) but it seems to be particularly pernicious in China and other areas of Asia." Along with what appears to be an almost completely arrogant mentality regarding conservation. The worlds chelonians are currently being funneled at a horrifying rate into china. I have been to several conferences and have at least half dozen T shirts regarding the Asian Turtle Crisis. Its a disaster. Even in the USA, go to any city center with a "China Town", and you will find Turtles for sale for food - Florida and Smooth Softshells along with Diamondback Terrapins are favorites, (The Alligator Snapper used to be, but thankfully is more protected now) along with various exotics, in vile conditions. NO chelonian species can withstand commercial harvest. nytts.org/Asianturtlecrisis.htmltortoise-aid.org/asianturtles.htmlwww.tortoisetrust.org/articles/asia.htmlwww.asianturtlenetwork.org/home/more_about_turtle_crisis.htm"I am of course aware that animal cruelty is a global issue (exquisite marine life toys from Japan vs chopping up marine mammals in the name of science etc ) but it seems to be particularly pernicious in China and other areas of Asia." Along with what appears to be an almost completely arrogant mentality regarding conservation. The worlds chelonians are currently being funneled at a horrifying rate into china. I have been to several conferences and have at least half dozen T shirts regarding the Asian Turtle Crisis. Its a disaster. Even in the USA, go to any city center with a "China Town", and you will find Turtles for sale for food - Florida and Smooth Softshells along with Diamondback Terrapins are favorites, (The Alligator Snapper used to be, but thankfully is more protected now) along with various exotics, in vile conditions. NO chelonian species can withstand commercial harvest. nytts.org/Asianturtlecrisis.htmltortoise-aid.org/asianturtles.htmlwww.tortoisetrust.org/articles/asia.htmlwww.asianturtlenetwork.org/home/more_about_turtle_crisis.htmIt just shows that the general bulk of the human population cares little for animal populations, and if not told otherwise will eliminate it completely if desired. Why wipe out turtles, like we almost did to the Buffalo?We farm other meat sources like cows, pigs, chickens, turkey and fish. Wouldn't they be able to do that with turtles?  Why wipe out turtles, like we almost did to the Buffalo?We farm other meat sources like cows, pigs, chickens, turkey and fish. Wouldn't they be able to do that with turtles? It isn't a popular tradition to breed any sort of reptile simply for food, so I guess they feel hunting them to extinction is less costly. It isn't a popular tradition to breed any sort of reptile simply for food, so I guess they feel hunting them to extinction is less costly. I don't think people are consciously deciding "Hey, I'm gonna go hunt turtles to extinction by eating them". If it is a custom for a certain ethnicity, then it's going to be difficult to have people change their ways. I know for example some animals have "medicinal" purposes to people, so they feel that eating them is more important than the conservation of the species. CCM and Tyrannax, I'm not disagreeing that it's awful that these species are being hunted close to extinction, but I don't think the argument should be over simplified. (and I think I'll start another topic in general so as not to derail the invicta thread further.) |
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Post by therizinosaurus on Aug 9, 2009 17:23:49 GMT
It is a simple argument: if your tradition involves eating endangered species it's stupid and you should stop. Particularly if the "medicine" isn't proven and is just a cultural artifact. Kuni, I agree completely, I'm just saying that it will be harder to get people to stop if they believe what they do, as untrue as it may be. |
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Post by kuni on Aug 9, 2009 18:22:26 GMT
This is very true.
You can either force them, bribe them, educate them, or shame them into not doing it. That's about it.
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Post by crazycrowman on Aug 10, 2009 1:09:54 GMT
"I'm not disagreeing that it's awful that these species are being hunted close to extinction, but I don't think the argument should be over simplified." Theri - I hear what you are saying, BUT it really is that simple. Granted, I am the kind of guy who takes conservation dead serious, and I am thrilled with things like the anti poaching squads in Africa protecting the rhinos who deal with poachers by shooting to kill on sight. Sure, I prefer education, and I prefer reteaching people, but when it comes to warlords and drug cartels taking out animals on a massive scale with automatic weapons, and the animals just being another smuggled product ? - A dead poacher = live rhino, and that's a win in my book. There are too many blasted people on this planet anyway. As a member of the ATC, www.asianturtle.org/ I know the status on these turtles. MANY are extinct, or near extinct in the wild. If they were breeding these animals for whatever uses they were doing with them, I would have hang ups on the poor treatment of the animals if they were (which I expect they would still be), but all in all, I would be far more OK with it - I would see it similar to the farming of crocodilians, and like the Chinese have been doing with the Chinese Softshell Turtle, Pelodiscus sinensis. The eating, and use of farmed animals do not impact the wild populations (unless they are sloppy with runoff and give wild populations disease and the like) The problem ? Turtle farming is not really cheap, its time consuming, and turtles take a long time to grow to size (around 4 on the low end to 15 years for most species), so when compared to the inexpensive nature of pillaging the forests and swamps, it has not been "worth" making a business out of farming turtles. Plus, and this is just lovely - wild turtles are still valued by Chinese consumers over the farm-raised animals, as they are believed to be more "vigorous" - So, they are going around and removing all the reproductive older animals from the wild. Gee...makes sense that the population would crash from this, doesn't it ? The simple fact is that these people have an insatiable hunger (mostly based on cultural beliefs like a higher sex drive, having less acne, and other trivial things, but also beliefs like turtles as a cancer cure) for these animals who simply can not, and could never reproduce fast enough to deal with the pressures, (especially the pressures of more and more people with higher incomes to afford the delicacy of having turtle as a regular food/"med") I always ask people to remember, we are not talking about turtles being a sustenance food for these people here - we are not taking the protein out of some starving villagers mouth - we are talking about these turtles being the equivalent of something like lobster to us here. The fact that China as a country blatantly skirts and ignores regulations that have all put in place to protect these animals (like Cites - Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora - who they are a member of...but the food market footage speaks for itself) Is too much. We are not exempt from this insanity either - this country is now exporting thousands of turtles to China for food/"medicine". Some of these are farmed animals, but unfortunately, many are not, especially regarding DBT's. The trade and use of these animals from the wild needs to end, or we are at serious risk of loosing even more turtle species here. Thankfully, Florida just banned the commercial taking of turtles. We really need these regs in place on a federal level. Hopefully it will happen. news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/07/090724-turtles-china.htmlwww.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1618565,00.html nytts.org/asia/marketthm.htmThe current practices, and level of consumption of these animals on a worldwide scale is complete inexcusable, and entirely unsustainable - No "tradition" should find any culture exempt form the realization that they are consuming species into extinction. It was inexcusable when we did it in the past, and its inexcusable when we do it today. (though in this country, its far more likely to be a hosing development or mall plopped on top of a population then them being eaten) If a tradition does those things, then its about time for that tradition to go extinct. They should at least be "forced" into farming turtles in China, if they wish for this "tradition" to continue like they are starting to do with P. sinensis. The same goes for products like Rhino Horn and Tiger thingy and Bear Bile. They have bear bile farms, where the bears live in cramped cages and have bile drained from their bodies to help supply the demand...check out the links - *its just lovely*) But I guess its better then killing the last of the wild bears. (IMHO, it is altogether just another tradition that needs to go extinct) www.ifaw.org/ifaw_international/join_campaigns/emergency_relief/sanctuaries_vital_havens_that_save_lives/saving_moon_bears_from_lives_of_torture_--_china/index.php |
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Post by Tyrannax on Aug 10, 2009 2:30:15 GMT
It is especially difficult when as certain religious culture hunts a species. Because they believe what they are doing is justified by their beliefs, they will continue to endanger the animals without having the least bit of concern for the population.
But if we try to intervene, we are destroying there traditions. So, how do we stop a habit that has been carried on for generations for that individual group of people without seeming cruel?
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Post by sbell on Aug 10, 2009 3:38:49 GMT
It is especially difficult when as certain religious culture hunts a species. Because they believe what they are doing is justified by their beliefs, they will continue to endanger the animals without having the least bit of concern for the population. But if we try to intervene, we are destroying there traditions. So, how do we stop a habit that has been carried on for generations for that individual group of people without seeming cruel? That's a bunch of relativist hogwash--some cultures did/do believe in killing or disfiguring women that somehow displease you--since that is an 'ancient' tradition, that is not enough to make it okay. Other cultures capture(d) their enemies and massacred them under the guise of appeasing whatever deity they had--also ancient, and still immoral. The fact is, cultures must grow and evolve. When these animals are harvested for 'traditional' reasons, it can usually be placed into two categories--don't know (i.e. education is required so that these peoples understand why or how the belief can be damaging, and may not be solving their problem), or don't want to know (i.e. they know full well that the 'cures' or 'foods' have no real effect, but the money involved is too grand to care). Turns out, rhino horns, tiger thingyes, bear gall and cobra venom* (to name a few) may come from potent sources, but we know full well that there is no basis in their supposed 'effects' other than to make a few people wealthy, and a few rare animals more rare. *yes, I know that there are materials in venoms that are medically useful, but not in the ways usually described |
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Post by Tyrannax on Aug 10, 2009 4:37:19 GMT
It is especially difficult when as certain religious culture hunts a species. Because they believe what they are doing is justified by their beliefs, they will continue to endanger the animals without having the least bit of concern for the population. But if we try to intervene, we are destroying there traditions. So, how do we stop a habit that has been carried on for generations for that individual group of people without seeming cruel? That's a bunch of relativist hogwash--some cultures did/do believe in killing or disfiguring women that somehow displease you--since that is an 'ancient' tradition, that is not enough to make it okay. Other cultures capture(d) their enemies and massacred them under the guise of appeasing whatever deity they had--also ancient, and still immoral. The fact is, cultures must grow and evolve. When these animals are harvested for 'traditional' reasons, it can usually be placed into two categories--don't know (i.e. education is required so that these peoples understand why or how the belief can be damaging, and may not be solving their problem), or don't want to know (i.e. they know full well that the 'cures' or 'foods' have no real effect, but the money involved is too grand to care). Turns out, rhino horns, tiger thingyes, bear gall and cobra venom* (to name a few) may come from potent sources, but we know full well that there is no basis in their supposed 'effects' other than to make a few people wealthy, and a few rare animals more rare. *yes, I know that there are materials in venoms that are medically useful, but not in the ways usually describedGood point. So, you are stating that we must educate groups (That is of course if they are essentially clueless of their actions' effects) that their traditions are damaging to their environment? But, some use their traditions as alibis so as to allow them to make a large profit off of the animals they hunt. These people deserve no explanation, and simply need to be stopped. Now, because there are so many organized, and yet unadvertised poaching groups that may illegally take tourists or natives on hunting trips for large, protected species, it is obvious that our current strategies are not working too well. Not to mention the variety of species worldwide that are not protected, and yet are still being hunted at an unbalanced rate. |
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Post by foxilized on Aug 10, 2009 5:20:57 GMT
Amazingly, the Invicta thread just turned into this!!
Though I am glad anyway, kind of really interesting topic here.
In my opinion, I would never blame China or Asia or any particular culture on cruelty with animals. First because it's an extremely simplistic generalization, second just because you can find horrible examples of that in every culture, and even more, in each of our own cultures. I do know it's easier to find the dark things in others, but I can tell you it's also in mine.
In Spain, for example, there allways and still exist the bull fight thing, were the bull is put in a "plaza" in some kind of gladiator arena and is fooled by some guys, is hurt with cloroful knifes that makes him bleed to week him and after abot 15 minutes of fooling him around and exhaust him, is killed with a sword. You know, not a tasteful show for anyone who is sensitive with animals.
No need to point that I deeply dislike this show.
BUT, thing is, thigs are actually very complicate. Point is, the race of bull used for this shows WOULDN'T EXIST if these shows didn't exist. They are only and specifically raised for the bull fights. And while they are growing up, these animales are treated like kings, eat the best food, have a lot of free space to run and rule and become strong, they mate with the best cows, etcetera etcetera.
Sure, then they die in horrible pain and stress but that is only his last 20 minutes, where, if you think about it, he is fighting (in a very unjust and unequal fight, sure) but he is diying during a fight, he is not assassinated in cold blood with a gun or any other way the catter is killed. No, the bull is killed by men who are putting their lives in risk. They control the situation, of course, and the bull is fooled, but they actually touch the bull when go to end with his life -they put a sword in his heart, literally-.
So, when the people that loves these shows say that they actually LOVE the animal, is true. I know is absolutelay ironic and hard to swallow, but is absolutely true. They love the animal, they treat them like kings, then also kill them in a very curel way. Both things are true.
In the case of dogs and cats and animals of that kind killed for food in Asia, etc... I personally can't stand a person being cruel with a pet, It just makes me mad, so go figure if I ever saw a cat being skinned alive, I think I could do the same with the guy who was doing that... But putting my rage away, and trying to be as compasive as I can, first of all is highly important to notice people who do that things are usually very poor persons. Persons who job in a nuts like that, but thanks to a nutsty job like that they can bring food to their children. I honestly believe that I can't be compasive with animals if I am not also with human beings. I truly think this is really important to notice. It doesn't justify the cruel acts at all, but I think blaming the culture or the persons who do it doesn't help either, at all.
As sbell said, some TRUE evolving is necessary. An evolution of conciousness, but global, not only in less developed cultures, but in all of us as a single community of human beings, which is what we truly are in essence, the very same thing sharing the very same conciousness. Fact that some individuals are becoming more concious about being compasive with every life is hopeful. This concious simply need to become more and more common.
Blaming and hating, really, it's not the way. I am absolutely sure about this.
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Post by crazycrowman on Aug 10, 2009 6:42:10 GMT
^ I was not really even going heavily into my views about the subject of animal cruelty in my post on here, (I know, I am going even more off topic). I have enough feelings regarding that to go on for hours, and probably won't make me any more..."popular" on this list then I already am. We here in the US, or really any industrialized nation , are as guilty of absolutely horrifying acts of cruelty towards other species as any nation or any culture - a trip to a factory farm would make anyone see that. I will say that I consider myself non "speciest", in that I do feel that a cats life, or a dogs life is any more "valuable" then say, a chickens life or a cows life. I don't even think more of human life. Actually, besides being another creature, and thus deserving the respect for life that I would give to any other organism, I can't say I think much more of humans in general, but that just makes me look more like a kooky curmudgeon then ever. "I honestly believe that I can't be compasive with animals if I am not also with human beings. I truly think this is really important to notice." While I don't make it an effort to not be compassionate with human beings, (Being that I do teach, I try to make a specific effort to "connect" with compassion and understanding towards the people who I am teaching) I really feel that I am doing it for the planets biodiversity and with hopes that by teaching I help to ignite a spark in people that brings them closer to paying attention and realizing how much the world around them is a part of them. (Well, I tell myself that to feel good anyway  I feel quite frustrated as to how we treat the planet and the species that surround us, and that we could, and frankly should, be doing a much better job then we are. I do admit to harboring less positive emotions and feelings towards many people then I do towards most other species. I feel that because of our technology and science, and the insight that our "big brains" give us, that we should really "know better". Instead, its all about power, greed, status, and well...our base primate politics - how we treat the world around us, other species, and our own. I do not think that these feelings impact my ability to be compassionate towards animals at all. As it appears, I feel humans are just a fancy technology wielding ape that thinks to highly of itself and that most of us go on about our business, generally ignorant to the world around us in any significant way - pushing forward and ahead, and just going about our behaviors - just like most of the other animals on this planet do. I feel our species is driven by the same instincts and urges as any animal, rather then anything else - We just like to think that there is more too them then that, and that we really have "free will". But, to each their own... As for the bulls in the ring, I agree with you, that they live a better and more complete life prior to the event, and in a way meet a more respectful death then the poor feedlot cattle who get a bolt to the head (which hopefully kills them, and doesn't let them move down the line still conscious) after being frightened, jammed into a truck and dragged to the slaughterhouse before being served to customers down the street from the bullring that no one seems to think as much about. Anyway, In my post, I was mostly detailing the lack of sustainability of a resource/species, and how China, with its "new found wealth" is acting amazingly callously towards the worlds chelonian diversity (among other species) at a rate that is unbelievable, and that if they won't, someone, somewhere needs to step in and put a stop to the pillaging, be it by the forced establishment of turtle breeding farms, or something, as if left to its current state, it will be a moot point in 10 or 20 years. By that point, after they have completely decimated all the turtle species they could get their grubby mitts on, it will possibly be too late, assurance colonies of these animals aside. The Asian turtle crisis is NOT a many sided issue in regards to the populations of the animals - Science and studies have shown us the turtles can not take the assault of any sort of large scale commercial harvest, especially with all the other pressures they are facing in our wake - And that should be enough to put laws into place to do our best internationally to end the practice of the large scale commercial harvest of ALL chelonians, worldwide, and properly enforce them. (The same that is said for chelonians populations could be said for any species that takes a long time to become sexually mature and has a generally low drift of new unrelated reproductive animals into a population - large, long lived fish species (Tunas, Groupers, Billfish) and Sharks would probably fit the same or at least a similar trend, though I do not know enough about their population dynamics to say that for sure) |
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Post by sid on Aug 10, 2009 13:54:51 GMT
That's one of the main reasons why China isn't exactly one of my favorite countries... With all their "traditional medicine" they are basically slaughtering species over species of animals, endangered or not... And don't get me started about dogs and sharks... Obviously not all the chinese like these things, but, hey, the others who keep on these nefarious ways should be punished the hard way, no matter how old their so called "traditions" are... Sick bastards  To Crazycrowman: I didn't know about those anti-poachers squads... Cool  |
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Post by foxilized on Aug 10, 2009 15:29:13 GMT
On a personal level, I honestly tell you, I am not enlighted and I am not Jesuschrist or the Dalai Lama so if each time I see a pic of these cats and dogs in diminute jails, those beautiful sharks cut into pieces, or all that turtle massacre info you share, I just go mad and I also think: "SICK SON OF #######"" and wish them a horrible medieval torture or something.
You are all right when you say the "tradition" thing is absolutely not an excuse to keep doing it. At all. It's so obvious.
But really I don't think they keep doing it just because they want to conserve their cultural goods, truly I don't think they are into that, but in more urgent topcs like buying rice or paying the hole were they live. If they actually live worst than animals, it's not strange they need to do anything in order to survive.
Now again i'm not defending the repulsive act, just trying to understand the reasons why this actually happen.
On the other hand there's the near exctinction of endangered species made by industrial companies who know there's a gold mine there. Again we can't blame the country or the culture, because EVERY industrial country today has that mentality, and exploits the resources in the very same way. It's the world we are living in, which is totally crazy obssessed with success and money and absolutely ignoring the damage it costs.
Crazycrowman, I don't believe in "free will", indeed I believe human beings just do what they CAN do to survive. Only being concious one can really choose, but 99% of members of our species simply act unconciously, like a programed robot, in order to survive in their particular situation of life.
The only way to stop madness creating more madness is becoming concious and then, after at last being able to see beyond the selfish egotistic hunger, being able to see the consecuences of my acts, one (and all) can really choose. But as long as our world continue being so blind, unconcious and not responsible, sickness will continue because it simply feeds on itself.
Notice that I talk about the whole world, all of us. We all need that awakening, not just an specific culture or country, but ALL of us. We all are sick, but in some specific cultures it's more obvious (like it's more in the surface) but the sickness is general.
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Post by Pangolinmoth on Aug 10, 2009 17:32:21 GMT
Just to chime in my two cents on this topic, A lot of these animals spoken about are being exterminated due to cultural traditions or beliefs but what about animals being killed over convenience? What I mean is that for every piece of plastic or styrofoam thrown away because "Hey? I got my one time use out of it, I'll just throw it in the gutter", it then adds yet another piece of plastic to the worlds largest trash dump in the middle of the ocean. It's twice as big as the USA. This will destroy the ENTIRE marine ecosystem if kept at the pace it is going. Not just one species of octopus or whale or coral, but EVERYTHING. This is having noticeable repurcusions on a microbiotic leval. And we are all guilty. Not just the Chinese, Not just Poachers in Africa. You, Me, Everybody. And here I am warning about the dangers of plastic on the plastic dino toy site. But the difference is we keep them proudly displayed upon our shelves unlike a take out meal full of one time use plastic cutlery, drink cup, condiment packages, etc.... I do not stand for any animal cruelty, and I especially do not stand for ignorance. We are all pleading to save the gorillas from drug lords and stop the Chinese cause everything they do is evil and whatnot. Meanwhile, That was a good 20 ounces of water *toss*. Death of an entire ecosystem due to Ignorance and Convenience. Unbelievable. Animal cruelty through laziness. All it takes is ONE glass cup, Used everyday for the rest of your life, or until it breaks, and ONE set of steel utensils, and a mass change of habit. Boycott one time use plastic. Save the whales, and the sharks, and the tuna, and the seabirds, and the seals, and the jellyfish, and the diatoms, and the coral, and the kelp, and, well, you get the picture... Watch this www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxNqzAHGXvs or this www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a4S23uXIcM |
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Post by Tyrannax on Aug 10, 2009 23:04:57 GMT
Just to chime in my two cents on this topic, A lot of these animals spoken about are being exterminated due to cultural traditions or beliefs but what about animals being killed over convenience? What I mean is that for every piece of plastic or styrofoam thrown away because "Hey? I got my one time use out of it, I'll just throw it in the gutter", it then adds yet another piece of plastic to the worlds largest trash dump in the middle of the ocean. It's twice as big as the USA. This will destroy the ENTIRE marine ecosystem if kept at the pace it is going. Not just one species of octopus or whale or coral, but EVERYTHING. This is having noticeable repurcusions on a microbiotic leval. And we are all guilty. Not just the Chinese, Not just Poachers in Africa. You, Me, Everybody. And here I am warning about the dangers of plastic on the plastic dino toy site. But the difference is we keep them proudly displayed upon our shelves unlike a take out meal full of one time use plastic cutlery, drink cup, condiment packages, etc.... I do not stand for any animal cruelty, and I especially do not stand for ignorance. We are all pleading to save the gorillas from drug lords and stop the Chinese cause everything they do is evil and whatnot. Meanwhile, That was a good 20 ounces of water *toss*. Death of an entire ecosystem due to Ignorance and Convenience. Unbelievable. Animal cruelty through laziness. All it takes is ONE glass cup, Used everyday for the rest of your life, or until it breaks, and ONE set of steel utensils, and a mass change of habit. Boycott one time use plastic. Save the whales, and the sharks, and the tuna, and the seabirds, and the seals, and the jellyfish, and the diatoms, and the coral, and the kelp, and, well, you get the picture... Watch this www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxNqzAHGXvs or this www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a4S23uXIcMWell, what can you do do Pangio? Homo Sapiens will certainly continue to litter. No law will ever end that. Our species is overly comfortable with the status we now enjoy on earth. So, what does the average man want to do? Walk 25 feet to a trash can, or simply drop the trash? But if he does choose to throw a plastic cup away, is it really any better? Doesn't it wind up in the ground? I can honestly see littering being the world's downfall in the future. Why? Because it is one of the only aspects of our species that we will almost certainly never stop. So, companies like "Dixie" are contributing to the world's inventory of loose trash at an astonishing rate, and we have yet to stop. Isn't it incredible that when a species is so intelligent it is actually able to read or deduct that this higher amount of litter in the environment will one day lead to his demise? But isn't it even more incredible when he is so comfortable with his status as man to stop or care? |
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Post by Pangolinmoth on Aug 10, 2009 23:24:23 GMT
Well, what can you do do Pangio? Homo Sapiens will certainly continue to litter. No law will ever end that. Our species is overly comfortable with the status we now enjoy on earth. So, what does the average man want to do? Walk 25 feet to a trash can, or simply drop the trash? But if he does choose to throw a plastic cup away, is it really any better? Doesn't it wind up in the ground? I can honestly see littering being the world's downfall in the future. Why? Because it is one of the only aspects of our species that we will almost certainly never stop. So, companies like "Dixie" are contributing to the world's inventory of loose trash at an astonishing rate, and we have yet to stop. Isn't it incredible that when a species is so intelligent it is actually able to read or deduct that this higher amount of litter in the environment will one day lead to his demise? But isn't it even more incredible when he is so comfortable with his status as man to stop or care? Good points. But here is what I do. I have used one cup for 3 years now. Before That I had one for 2 years. Everywhere I go i bring it and use it. Coffee, Water, Soda, whatever. Never use plastic bags from grocery stores cause I always have my backpack with me. Buy bulk foods and use containers stored (as you can now see the theme) in my backpack. Basically I bring what I need with me instead of relying on someone else who, to provide me with containers, uses cheap disposable plastics. I can totally say that I easily cut the amount of waste that I create by 75% just by thinking ahead and being prepared. Never think that you won't be able to change anything. I just hope that it will become cool to be a conscious human BEFORE all the whales are extinct. Anyway, sorry for derailing thread. |
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Post by Tyrannax on Aug 11, 2009 1:20:37 GMT
Well, what can you do do Pangio? Homo Sapiens will certainly continue to litter. No law will ever end that. Our species is overly comfortable with the status we now enjoy on earth. So, what does the average man want to do? Walk 25 feet to a trash can, or simply drop the trash? But if he does choose to throw a plastic cup away, is it really any better? Doesn't it wind up in the ground? I can honestly see littering being the world's downfall in the future. Why? Because it is one of the only aspects of our species that we will almost certainly never stop. So, companies like "Dixie" are contributing to the world's inventory of loose trash at an astonishing rate, and we have yet to stop. Isn't it incredible that when a species is so intelligent it is actually able to read or deduct that this higher amount of litter in the environment will one day lead to his demise? But isn't it even more incredible when he is so comfortable with his status as man to stop or care? Good points. But here is what I do. I have used one cup for 3 years now. Before That I had one for 2 years. Everywhere I go i bring it and use it. Coffee, Water, Soda, whatever. Never use plastic bags from grocery stores cause I always have my backpack with me. Buy bulk foods and use containers stored (as you can now see the theme) in my backpack. Basically I bring what I need with me instead of relying on someone else who, to provide me with containers, uses cheap disposable plastics. I can totally say that I easily cut the amount of waste that I create by 75% just by thinking ahead and being prepared. Never think that you won't be able to change anything. I just hope that it will become cool to be a conscious human BEFORE all the whales are extinct. Anyway, sorry for derailing thread. It's nice to hear someone taking action. I'm glad for you Pangio, and I'm not surprised you are one of the few with a state of mind geared toward conservation of our planet. But, there is still the majority of people who litter and think nothing of it. I should say that I disagree that we're derailing. Because when we litter, as you said, it ends up in the overgrowing ball of litter debris in the ocean. This may lead to poisoning, strangling, or choking of animals. Because we are indirectly harming these animals, I'd say littering has a large place in this thread. |
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Post by [][][]cordylus[][][] on Aug 11, 2009 1:20:41 GMT
CCM, all your posts are filled with win........  And hey people! Let's not forget all the shark finning that goes along well over there! |
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Post by Tyrannax on Aug 11, 2009 1:25:30 GMT
CCM, all your posts are filled with win........ And hey people! Let's not forget all the shark finning that goes along well over there! Was that not mentioned? Well, to comment on a similar topic I will say that during a planned fishing expedition on a fishing boat with many other people, I, like many others, caught a shark. This shark was much larger however, measuring 42 inches in length; the largest catch of the day. As they prepared to throw it in the freezer when I abruptly stopped them and ordered they throw it back. I would not allow any of my fish to be killed. To this day the shark is alive, considering it hasn't been killed by a separate factor. |
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Post by [][][]cordylus[][][] on Aug 11, 2009 1:36:20 GMT
Karma for tyrannax Oh wait, that feature is gone..... Oh well, you still get some |
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Post by Pangolinmoth on Aug 11, 2009 3:18:00 GMT
Shark karma is the best kind.
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Post by foxilized on Aug 12, 2009 4:55:32 GMT
Shark karma is the best kind. Sure it is. And, pangolinmoth, such a great example you are. Indeed. My respects, brother. |
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I feel quite frustrated as to how we treat the planet and the species that surround us, and that we could, and frankly should, be doing a much better job then we are.
![[][][]cordylus[][][] Avatar](http://files.sharenator.com/Troll_Face_U_MAD_RE_wrestling_1-s407x405-126802.jpg)
