Stegosaur forelimbs

[paleoferroequine]

Well now, seems that stegosaurian metacarpals were vertical and arranged in a semi tubular configuration like in sauropods. So one more thing(along with non-pronated forelimbs in ceratopsians) to criticize in toy dinosaurs ;D

www.app.pan.pl/article/item/app20091105.html

[sid]

Splayed forelimbs in Stegosaurus restorations were most common in the 19th century and the first half of the 20th century... If i remember well, in the 80s-90s they were already restored with a more upright posture

[Horridus]

Mar 30, 2010 18:48:10 GMT sid said:

Splayed forelimbs in Stegosaurus restorations were most common in the 19th century and the first half of the 20th century... If i remember well, in the 80s-90s they were already restored with a more upright posture

He's not talking about the legs, he's talking about the 'hands'.

[paleoferroequine]

Right, this isn't splayed legs or straight legs, this is them walking with vertical metacarpals rather than metacarpals slanted and distally spread with a pad in back supporting the foot. It actually forms a semi tube structure. Ankylosauria might also have this posture.

[Griffin]

So Thyrophorans may have had column feet is what its saying in a nutshell? Is it just front feet or back feet too?

[paleoferroequine]

Mar 30, 2010 19:31:16 GMT Griffin said:

So Thyrophorans may have had column feet is what its saying in a nutshell? Is it just front feet or back feet too?

Right. This only talks about front feet, just like sauropods. The phalanges are vestigial.

[[][][]cordylus[][][]]

Wow! This is pretty interesting.

Somebody better come out with a correctly-footed stegosaur next year ;D

[stoneage]

Mar 30, 2010 22:07:51 GMT [][][]cordylus[][][] said:

Wow! This is pretty interesting.

Somebody better come out with a correctly-footed stegosaur next year ;D

No not the feet! The Hands! ;D

[sid]

Oh, sorry, i misunderstood... So basically the majority of four-legged herbivore dinosaurs had column-like feet (or hands, as in this case)?

And what about hadrosaurs' hands? They are still thought to look like some sort of hoofed "gloves", or their hand fingers could move at least to some degree?

[[][][]cordylus[][][]]

Mar 30, 2010 22:49:10 GMT sid said:

Oh, sorry, i misunderstood... So basically the majority of four-legged herbivore dinosaurs had column-like feet (or hands, as in this case)?

And what about hadrosaurs' hands? They are still thought to look like some sort of hoofed "gloves", or their hand fingers could move at least to some degree?

Hadrosaur footprints, I believe, support the "gloved" theory... even if they weren't "gloved" in flesh and muscle I don't think their joints could move around much in their fingers

[Griffin]

Mar 30, 2010 22:49:10 GMT sid said:

Oh, sorry, i misunderstood... So basically the majority of four-legged herbivore dinosaurs had column-like feet (or hands, as in this case)?

And what about hadrosaurs' hands? They are still thought to look like some sort of hoofed "gloves", or their hand fingers could move at least to some degree?

Ceratopsians still as far as anyone knows are column-free.

[paleoferroequine]

Ceratopsians still as far as anyone knows are column-free.

This is from the PDF manuscript:
These data suggest that ankylosaurian metacarpals were also configured in a vertical semi-tube, which is consistent with the shapes of ankylosaurian manus prints (Carpenter 1984). Interestingly, the metacarpals were vertical—although in a broad curve rather than a semi-tube—in quadrupedal members of another ornithischian taxon: Ceratopsia (Senter 2007a; Fujiwara 2010).
Also in the last reference, Fujiwara 2010, he proposes that ceratopsians also held the manus in a non-pronated postion and possibly ornithopods also. ;D Yee Hah!
I for one would like to get a copy of the Fujiwara paper to read, not just the abstract.

[sid]

Mar 31, 2010 0:13:53 GMT [][][]cordylus[][][] said:

Mar 30, 2010 22:49:10 GMT sid said:

Oh, sorry, i misunderstood... So basically the majority of four-legged herbivore dinosaurs had column-like feet (or hands, as in this case)?

And what about hadrosaurs' hands? They are still thought to look like some sort of hoofed "gloves", or their hand fingers could move at least to some degree?

Hadrosaur footprints, I believe, support the "gloved" theory... even if they weren't "gloved" in flesh and muscle I don't think their joints could move around much in their fingers

Ok, thanks for the info


To paleoferroequine:

yeah, i'd like to read that paper too... Still i don't understand that bit about non-pronated hands in Ceratopsians and hadrosaurs; could you be more precise?

[paleoferroequine]

yeah, i'd like to read that paper too... Still i don't understand that bit about non-pronated hands in Ceratopsians and hadrosaurs; could you be more precise?

According to Fujiwara, ceratopsians could not pronate the hand, the radius and ulna don't cross just like in theropods., the palm faces inward, not back. Now, this is just one paper, so I don't know how it's been received, so like anything you have to keep an open mind either way. Until I can read it I don't know about hadrosaurs except what one person said who had read it at the DML. I'm not sure but I think non pronation applies to the heterodontosaurids and pachycephalosaurians also. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong on this. Interestingly, years ago when I sculpted an Iguanodon, I made the hands non pronated, palms inward. Don't remember why I did it that way,now though.

[Radman]

I love that sculpt! ;D The battle scars are a nice touch. Maybe you could talk to Dinonikes about producing a new figure; I would certainly like one.

[paleoferroequine]

Mar 31, 2010 18:05:26 GMT Radman said:

I love that sculpt! ;D The battle scars are a nice touch. Maybe you could talk to Dinonikes about producing a new figure; I would certainly like one.

Problem is the scale is not 1/40th, it's about 15in long or maybe 1/20th or 1/25th scale. Oh, I just remembered why I made the hands that way, there are trackways attributed to Iguanodon with the palms inward.

[Horridus]

Noticed today that the Favorite Stegosaurus has concave hands, even if it has too many nails/claws [insert disgruntled Griffin comment here].

Favorite = Win.

[[][][]cordylus[][][]]

Mar 31, 2010 19:23:18 GMT Horridus said:

Noticed today that the Favorite Stegosaurus has concave hands, even if it has too many nails/claws [insert disgruntled Griffin comment here].

Favorite = Win.

Stegosaurs did have some claws on their front feet though, right? I think I have seen pictures of fossilized stegosaurs with bone-claws where the fingers were.

Bullyland also has their stegosaur with a similar "arch" style of toes, but it isn't horseshoe shaped! Oh well ;D

[sid]

Mar 31, 2010 17:23:59 GMT paleoferroequine said:

yeah, i'd like to read that paper too... Still i don't understand that bit about non-pronated hands in Ceratopsians and hadrosaurs; could you be more precise?

According to Fujiwara, ceratopsians could not pronate the hand, the radius and ulna don't cross just like in theropods., the palm faces inward, not back. Now, this is just one paper, so I don't know how it's been received, so like anything you have to keep an open mind either way. Until I can read it I don't know about hadrosaurs except what one person said who had read it at the DML. I'm not sure but I think non pronation applies to the heterodontosaurids and pachycephalosaurians also. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong on this. Interestingly, years ago when I sculpted an Iguanodon, I made the hands non pronated, palms inward. Don't remember why I did it that way,now though.

Now i understand it, thanks... And it looks plausible, IMHO

You're really talented at sculpting, ya know?

[Horridus]

Mar 31, 2010 20:08:43 GMT [][][]cordylus[][][] said:

Stegosaurs did have some claws on their front feet though, right? I think I have seen pictures of fossilized stegosaurs with bone-claws where the fingers were.

Yeah, they had claws, but I'm pretty sure the Favorite model has too many on both the feet and hands.