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Post by Dinotoyforum on Aug 20, 2008 14:57:58 GMT
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Post by tomhet on Aug 20, 2008 16:42:09 GMT
Wow, such a great finding. I wonder what other treasures the black market has to offer.
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Post by Blade-of-the-Moon on Aug 20, 2008 19:58:25 GMT
" ebayi " That would have been a great name... lol  |
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Post by crazycrowman on Aug 20, 2008 23:47:19 GMT
Fascinating, thanks for posting that.
Fossils on market are usually legit, and not black market. Alot of the fossils sold to collectors are as far as scientists are concerned "junk" - I have some fossil trackways, bones, claws, teeth, and a small theropod egg with locality data, as does a friend of mine, and even things like a near complete hadrosaur rib and partial skull materials of things like oreodonts, and such, but as partial materials of well represented species they are deemed of little value regarding research and often sold on the private sector to fund digs and research.
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Post by [][][]cordylus[][][] on Aug 21, 2008 0:39:36 GMT
Interesting to say the least.
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Post by tomhet on Aug 21, 2008 3:15:04 GMT
I always wanted a large Mosasaurus jaw, are they fake too? I really can't tell.
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Post by giganotoigauana on Aug 21, 2008 3:41:42 GMT
I always wanted a large Mosasaurus jaw, are they fake too? I really can't tell. there are a lot of fake fossils on ebay and a few real ones too i seen a croc skull full of mosasaurus teeth  I have looked up pages on fake and real fossils and took my chances when i did buy. The last fossil i purchased was a psittacosaurus skull which was indeed real. |
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Post by crazycrowman on Aug 21, 2008 3:55:47 GMT
"I have looked up pages on fake and real fossils and took my chances when i did buy. The last fossil i purchased was a psittacosaurus skull which was indeed real."
I hate to be a nay sayer, but I doubt that it is real 100%. Ebay is a scary place to buy fossils, and anything out of china....*shivers* There are some very elaborate hoaxers out there, and as long as you aren't paying much for the fakes, some of them are as nice as the nicest casts. I have a fair number of cast fossils myself.
Could you post detailed photos of your psittacosaurus skull ?
As for those Mosasaurus jaws, they are the real teeth, but usually composite "jaw" though. (Teeth attached to a bone, one of them may be actually present, and the others are added on later to make it appear like a nice sellable fossil). Again, for a display item, not bad if you can get one affodably. i wouldn't pay over 30.00$ for one myself. (Local rock and mineral swaps are a good place to get this stuff cheaper, and be able to see it before paying for it) There is a tremendous amount of fake fossils out there, and many dealers have no idea that the material they have purchased to resell is fake.
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Post by bolesey on Aug 21, 2008 21:47:58 GMT
I've bought fossils in the past but I never will again. I've just heard too many bad stories.
Apparently in some parts of Morrocco locals are so involved in the fossil trade that they won't allow real scientists in. Makes you wonder where all those Spinosaur teeth are coming from.
In Mongolia, paleontologists have reported finding Gallimimus and Tarbosaur skeletons with the teeth and claws hacked out.
In China, apparently they're digging the stuff out so fast they have kids tunnel into the hillsides to get at it.
There are some quite reputable commercial fossil hunters out there, but anything good is generally out of my price range, and I've shifted to focus on casts. Lot of trashy casts out there too.
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Post by sbell on Aug 21, 2008 23:37:38 GMT
I've bought fossils in the past but I never will again. I've just heard too many bad stories. Apparently in some parts of Morrocco locals are so involved in the fossil trade that they won't allow real scientists in. Makes you wonder where all those Spinosaur teeth are coming from. In Mongolia, paleontologists have reported finding Gallimimus and Tarbosaur skeletons with the teeth and claws hacked out. In China, apparently they're digging the stuff out so fast they have kids tunnel into the hillsides to get at it. There are some quite reputable commercial fossil hunters out there, but anything good is generally out of my price range, and I've shifted to focus on casts. Lot of trashy casts out there too. Not just in those remote parts--there are no shortage of toothless Albertosaurus in Alberta, for example. Plus, where I live (southern Saskatchewan) there is a National Park (Grasslands) that is loaded with fossils. National Parks are protected from all collecting (actually, true of all fossils in this province). But the park is right along the Canada-US border with Montana. So no surprises at the frequency of tire treads crossing back and forth. Think about that the next time you seen dino fossils from Montana. |
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Post by bolesey on Aug 22, 2008 1:40:16 GMT
Not just in those remote parts--there are no shortage of toothless Albertosaurus in Alberta, for example. Plus, where I live (southern Saskatchewan) there is a National Park (Grasslands) that is loaded with fossils. National Parks are protected from all collecting (actually, true of all fossils in this province). But the park is right along the Canada-US border with Montana. So no surprises at the frequency of tire treads crossing back and forth. Think about that the next time you seen dino fossils from Montana. really? That's terrible. At first I didn't want to believe the Mongolia story. I put it down to poor peasants more interested in making a quick sale to tourists than anything that requires a bit more effort. I would've thought Americans would know more about how to dig up that stuff and the value of a more complete specimen. Personally I think there needs to be more of a halfway system. There's no use having a blanket ban on collecting, a lot of stuff just erodes out anyway and there isn't enough official collecting. And you can't guard it all the time. If they could have some sort of system where licensed commercial collectors can collect certain common fossils, but inform a museum if they find anything interesting. In practice, there's probably always going to be stuff that slips out under the radar whatever the laws are. I just hate to hear about fossils being damaged or destroyed and scientific data being lost due to poor collection methods. |
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Post by sbell on Aug 22, 2008 5:17:42 GMT
Not just in those remote parts--there are no shortage of toothless Albertosaurus in Alberta, for example. Plus, where I live (southern Saskatchewan) there is a National Park (Grasslands) that is loaded with fossils. National Parks are protected from all collecting (actually, true of all fossils in this province). But the park is right along the Canada-US border with Montana. So no surprises at the frequency of tire treads crossing back and forth. Think about that the next time you seen dino fossils from Montana. really? That's terrible. At first I didn't want to believe the Mongolia story. I put it down to poor peasants more interested in making a quick sale to tourists than anything that requires a bit more effort. I would've thought Americans would know more about how to dig up that stuff and the value of a more complete specimen. Personally I think there needs to be more of a halfway system. There's no use having a blanket ban on collecting, a lot of stuff just erodes out anyway and there isn't enough official collecting. And you can't guard it all the time. If they could have some sort of system where licensed commercial collectors can collect certain common fossils, but inform a museum if they find anything interesting. In practice, there's probably always going to be stuff that slips out under the radar whatever the laws are. I just hate to hear about fossils being damaged or destroyed and scientific data being lost due to poor collection methods. No offense but...HAHAHAHAHA! I love the idea that somehow 'collectors' in North America would somehow be more responsible. Of course not--an Albertosaurus skull would be hard to extract, and probably would contravene Alberta law. The teeth, on the other hand, are quick and easy to remove, and very easy to sell for insane amounts of money (as tyrannosaurid teeth, I'm sure). And those poached fossils from Asia are not meant for tourists--they are meant for export through reputable dealers on the international market. Just like the products of all poaching, the people taking the most risk (in China, I understand that being actually caught stealing fossils is a death sentence) are paid the least, while people at all other levels have enormous mark-ups that never really benefit the poor people that need it. |
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Post by bolesey on Aug 22, 2008 23:40:22 GMT
They do sell the stuff in Mongolia, I have no idea how much gets onto the international market, but I remember about a year ago there was a bidding war with some hollywood celebrities over a Tarbosaurus skull that went for a lot of money. I figured if the petty looting was for international dealers, they'd go after the big money rather than scraps.
You'll have to forgive me for my naivité, but I just hadn't heard such stories from Canada before. With the money involved, I didn't think anyone would leave a skull in the ground for the sake of a few teeth. I remember reading that some of the locals in Montana tried to dig up the Fort Peck T.rex themselves. I suppose taking the skull is as bad, but ruining a skull to get the teeth is maddening.
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Post by thagomizer on Aug 23, 2008 1:32:41 GMT
No offense but...HAHAHAHAHA! I love the idea that somehow 'collectors' in North America would somehow be more responsible.[/quote] Of course North Americans should be more responsible. A lot of us are white! Didn't you know those d**n Asians are sneaky, hoaxing, opium-smoking tricksters? Surely, rural farmers in Canada should be held to higher standards than rural farmers in Mongolia. |
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Post by Dinotoyforum on Aug 23, 2008 12:39:36 GMT
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Post by paleotoys on Aug 23, 2008 13:26:59 GMT
If you know anything about taphonomy and look at that picture it screams composite. I also find the "perfect" layout unattractive and unimaginative. I prefer a few "imperfections" over any restorations or composite pieces. |
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Post by richard on Aug 23, 2008 14:42:31 GMT
Eventhough I'd really like to get some fossils I'm not a big supporter of black market
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Post by bolesey on Aug 23, 2008 20:02:00 GMT
No offense but...HAHAHAHAHA! I love the idea that somehow 'collectors' in North America would somehow be more responsible. Of course North Americans should be more responsible. A lot of us are white! Didn't you know those d**n Asians are sneaky, hoaxing, opium-smoking tricksters? Surely, rural farmers in Canada should be held to higher standards than rural farmers in Mongolia. There's no need to bring race into it. It's a developing country. That doesn't mean they're all stupid or dishonest. I don't want to offend anyone with my ignorance, but I'd assume North Americans have easier access to information and a better awareness of what the fossils represent. They also have better access to power tools. I suppose even with relative advantage people still do dumb and infuriating things. |
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Post by tomhet on Aug 24, 2008 3:37:39 GMT
Didn't you know those d**n Asians are sneaky, hoaxing, opium-smoking tricksters? Are you saying the Chinese don't produce tons of fake fossils per year? |
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Post by sbell on Aug 24, 2008 5:08:21 GMT
Didn't you know those d**n Asians are sneaky, hoaxing, opium-smoking tricksters? Are you saying the Chinese don't produce tons of fake fossils per year? ONE EASILY DETECTED FAKE. That's all. Try Morocco for fakes (trilobites, but still). |
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![[][][]cordylus[][][] Avatar](http://files.sharenator.com/Troll_Face_U_MAD_RE_wrestling_1-s407x405-126802.jpg)
I have looked up pages on fake and real fossils and took my chances when i did buy. The last fossil i purchased was a psittacosaurus skull which was indeed real.
