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Post by arioch on Aug 20, 2011 20:58:09 GMT
Its also very funny when he says the critizicers dont know a sh*t more than palaeontologists and should just shut up. Well the kind of sources that said people -at least the sensitive ones I´ve seen in this and other forums- quote to make their points is usually written by paleontologists, so their level of personal knowledge is quite irrelevant and either way apparently higher that the ones involved in the project.
Oh and this: "I say wait and see the real show, then if you don't like it, blab until you burst- nobody will care then because the show will blow most people away" is just gold. And he calls some people arrogant?
I hope he eventually apologize. Anyway I´m rooting for Planet Dinosaur much more, and hope it will get much better ratings.
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Post by Blade-of-the-Moon on Aug 20, 2011 21:26:00 GMT
, believable behaviors ( i don't think they're too "humanized"... Heck, just look at modern animals and their extremely wide range of behaviors), Which animals behave like that Anhanguera? Birds do kick their babies out of the nest. The mishaps associated with doing so are many and not limited to what is seen there. The one little male ? I guess returning the nest and trying to get away from flying or being tossed I'm not sure about..but it could be possible. Baby animals are often scared like that..especially with new experiences. The fact we find it so funny is also us projecting onto them our emotions and feelings..  |
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Post by phobotitan on Aug 20, 2011 23:20:06 GMT
Yes, birds do kick their kids out. However I think the scene could have been done just as well or better without the comedy. The scene is meant for laughs & there is no way to rationalize it otherwise.
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Post by Blade-of-the-Moon on Aug 21, 2011 6:59:38 GMT
Eh, to each their own tastes I guess really. I showed these clips to dinosaur crazy family and friends and they all enjoyed them to an extent..one even asking me if there was more. I've talked about Dinos to these same people before and goes in one ear and out the other..somehow this connected with them where the cold facts didn't and they remembered. I have to give points for that if nothing else.
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Post by sid on Aug 21, 2011 8:51:22 GMT
Quite frankly, i understand why Sholly is so angry... I mean, you do your best (along other people) to make an entertaining show about dinosaurs, trying to show something fresh, to be the most accurate possible, and yet there are some nerds who nitpick to the point of obsession; when he says that some of them don't know a jack about animal behavior, heck, he's right (i know guys here in Italy who totally match his description, sadly). Worst of all, if they'd be real paleontologists i could understand, but, hey, most of the critics are just paleo-fans like us who sometimes even made mistakes when pointing out supposed "errors"... Just yesterday i caught on Deviantart a comparision pic made by a guy who wanted to demonstrate that the DR Allosaurus lacked a pterygoid muscle; what image of the critter he used to point out this "mistake"? No less than one of the Allo with the deformed jaw, where the muscle is present but, obviously, pulled forward and stretched; maybe he didn't noticed!  |
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Post by arioch on Aug 21, 2011 10:50:48 GMT
But who are those evil nerds who want the people to be well informed? I want to see the comments, they must be really mean to justify such a response. I understand your enthusiasm but this is hardly justifiable....
The DR allo lacks the pterygoideus posterior and so does the T. Rex and other predators (it also happens in some of the Planet Dinosaur animals, its actually a common mistake in paleoart. )
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camara
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by camara on Aug 21, 2011 11:00:25 GMT
Quite frankly, i understand why Sholly is so angry... I mean, you do your best (along other people) to make an entertaining show about dinosaurs, trying to show something fresh, to be the most accurate possible, and yet there are some nerds who nitpick to the point of obsession; when he says that some of them don't know a jack about animal behavior, heck, he's right (i know guys here in Italy who totally match his description, sadly). Worst of all, if they'd be real paleontologists i could understand, but, hey, most of the critics are just paleo-fans like us who sometimes even made mistakes when pointing out supposed "errors"... Just yesterday i caught on Deviantart a comparision pic made by a guy who wanted to demonstrate that the DR Allosaurus lacked a pterygoid muscle; what image of the critter he used to point out this "mistake"? No less than one of the Allo with the deformed jaw, where the muscle is present but, obviously, pulled forward and stretched; maybe he didn't noticed! NOBODY here is nitpicking about the models. THE MODELS are far beyond AMAZING! We are talking about the stupid approach to the life of the dinosaurs. This is what Discovery Channel told us about the show when it was Reign of the Dinosaurs "REIGN OF THE DINOSAURS is bound to be the benchmark for all future dinosaur natural history programming" And now we find this....joke! What will they show us in the next clip? A T-rex smoking marihuana?? Why didn´t they tell us that this was going to be a show to make kids laugh??? They had the opportunity to be the benchmark for dinosaur natural history programming, they have the greatest dinosaur models I have ever seen and they ruined it all trying to get more casual audience who is not into dinosaurs at all...they will watch this just because it´s a comedy...so sad. |
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Post by sid on Aug 21, 2011 13:09:56 GMT
Only because there are some humorous scenes, it doesn't mean that ALL the show will be a comedy For Arioch: regarding the jaw muscles maybe you're right, i was referring to the bad example made by that guy on Deviantart, who used as a proof an image of the deformed Allo. Evil nerds? Eh, maybe not "evil" but arrogant notehless and, believe me, there are LOTS of them on the net  |
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Post by arioch on Aug 21, 2011 13:20:16 GMT
The deformed allo pic is good as an example as it lacks that muscle to operate the jaw. Regardless of the deformed lower jaw, without said muscle the animal couldnt have survived so long since it wouldn´t be able to open the jaw, grab the meat and swallow it.. So do you believe this statement is not arrogant and completely out of place? : I say wait and see the real show, then if you don't like it, blab until you burst- nobody will care then because the show will blow most people away. |
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bfler
Junior Member
Posts: 97
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Post by bfler on Aug 21, 2011 14:52:16 GMT
Hm, I watched the last two clips and I am not really convinced. I understand that they can't simply show some dinosaurs, because nowadays the crowd is fixated on action but what I see here is the same dumb slapstick you can also see in kid's movies like Ice Age (f.e. the squirrel with the nut)
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Post by phobotitan on Aug 21, 2011 15:14:30 GMT
Oh I'm not nitpicking about the models used, I think they look great. I like the T-rex in particular with it's ghost rider look. It's also nice to see lesser-known species like Torvosaurus & Shunosaurus, etc. Like I've said elsewhere, I feel the decision to add SCRIPTED comedic elements cheapens the whole affair & brings down all the good work that Krentz & co. did to make the show possible. I also completely agree with Arioch, Mr. Von Sholly really needs to take a deep breath, have a cigarette or a cold shower to calm himself before his next diatribe. We are all entitled to our opinion, despite what he thinks. I, for one, hope the show does big numbers- I want to see more, not less, dino docs in the future.
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Post by dinoguy2 on Aug 21, 2011 15:16:47 GMT
Quite frankly, i understand why Sholly is so angry... I mean, you do your best (along other people) to make an entertaining show about dinosaurs, trying to show something fresh, to be the most accurate possible, The 'be as accurate as possible' seems off. Either they were not going for strict accuracy, or they did not try very hard. It wouldn't take much research, for example, to know that pteorsaurs did not nest like birds and probably did not give much parental care. Pterosaurs layed leathery eggs and buried them in the dirt. Chicks emerged fully ossified and ready to fly with maybe olny a day or two of feeding by the parents required, if any (most pterosaur researchers agree that there was little or no parental care). The Anhanguera scene is extremely well animated and funny, but it is obvious that documentary-level scientific accuracy was not a priority there (current thinking on pterosaur life history can even be found in the Wikipedia article, so I'm not sure hat research could have been done that resulted in a bird-like nesting behavior). Note that there is no reason documentary-level accuracy SHOULD be a priority. This show seems to be emphasizing the fun of paleontology and paleoart. I don't recall anybody saying this was supposed to be a documentary. I think the show will be awesome as a fun/paleoarty/comic adaptation with awesome animation. |
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Post by gwangi on Aug 21, 2011 20:43:31 GMT
Note that there is no reason documentary-level accuracy SHOULD be a priority. This show seems to be emphasizing the fun of paleontology and paleoart. I don't recall anybody saying this was supposed to be a documentary. I think the show will be awesome as a fun/paleoarty/comic adaptation with awesome animation. I dunno. I think a good portion of the population would be interested to find out pterosaurs didn't nest like birds unlike what all the previous documentaries and movies have shown. There is no reason the nesting behavior could not have been portrayed correctly without the addition of some comedy or if they wanted to do that Loony Toons skit just replace the pterosaur with a prehistoric bird. As for the program's documentary status, even the creators have referred to it as a documentary and on a channel such as Discovery it should be treated as such. |
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Post by dinoguy2 on Aug 21, 2011 21:00:27 GMT
on a channel such as Discovery it should be treated as such. Haha, this is the same Discovery Channel that brings you such top-notch documentary/educational science programming as Auction Kings, Dirty Money, and American Chopper. When cable was new, each channel had a 'thing' - music, science, etc. Now all those channels are just random collections of reality shows. I think people have come to learn that Discovery =/= education, any more than they'd expect to see actual history shows on the History Channel or music on MTV. |
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Post by gwangi on Aug 21, 2011 23:06:39 GMT
on a channel such as Discovery it should be treated as such. Haha, this is the same Discovery Channel that brings you such top-notch documentary/educational science programming as Auction Kings, Dirty Money, and American Chopper. When cable was new, each channel had a 'thing' - music, science, etc. Now all those channels are just random collections of reality shows. I think people have come to learn that Discovery =/= education, any more than they'd expect to see actual history shows on the History Channel or music on MTV. I knew that comment was coming and I'm fully aware of all this, but that does not mean it is the way it should be. I could go on all day about the current state of television. I also don't think the general population is aware of how poor educational television is...if I had a nickle for every time I heard "I learned it from Discovery, Animal Planet, History etc. etc. And of course you can try to correct them but they are far more likely to believe the television than their peers. Edit: What it comes down to is this; aside from us natural history buffs no one really cares about dinosaurs. Dinosaurs are popular because they're entertaining as monsters or the subjects of kids movies. Most of us can trace the origins of our dino-interests to some form of pop-culture. For us the interest stuck and we learned more but the general populace just doesn't care about accurate behavior or anatomy and the people who make these shows are making them for the general populace. |
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Post by Sparkleopteryx on Aug 21, 2011 23:51:12 GMT
Whoa! ;D I haven't been back here in awhile and then just popped in and saw this thread go crazy, lol! ;D Guys, its OK Not that big of a deal. I haven't read everything here, but I'll let you guys go ahead and discuss. Don't think you need to feel bad about anything just cuz I'm around here and made some dinos for this one. It won't bother me There will be good and Meh and WTH? I'm sure Actually, I'm going to be welcoming your comments on my models and colors if you guys would like. I'm always up for critiques and want to improve. Whether you like the format or not is totally cool with me Anyway, they had some stuff up I can maybe put in my art thread and see if you dig it or if I made any glaring anatomical errors. So, just wanna say you don't need to be on ice just because you hang around with someone on here who did stuff Go ahead and discuss away. I have new art I need checked out!!! Best!  ;D |
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Post by gwangi on Aug 22, 2011 0:09:44 GMT
Honestly I was worried about offending some of you folks here who worked on the show but I should add (and I think I did previously) that I think the animals look fantastic and as far as I'm concerned the most accurate I've ever seen. There may be errors like muscle attachment sites and so forth but they aren't apparent to me. I only wish and hope the behavior matches the models. From what I have seen not so much but there is still a lot I haven't seen.
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Post by Sparkleopteryx on Aug 22, 2011 0:24:10 GMT
Honestly I was worried about offending some of you folks here who worked on the show but I should add (and I think I did previously) that I think the animals look fantastic and as far as I'm concerned the most accurate I've ever seen. There may be errors like muscle attachment sites and so forth but they aren't apparent to me. I only wish and hope the behavior matches the models. From what I have seen not so much but there is still a lot I haven't seen. DO NOT worry about offending us who worked on this thing. I'm going to tell you all right now I am not a "snobby, I know it all-I am awesome you are not" type of person. I'm down to earth, love to learn about dinosaurs, love to paint them and model them. And I love to chat with you here and I consider you all my online friends. Its a TV show. I had a blast working on it. I had an amazing time modeling and painting a bunch of dinosaurs. It was my dream job I never thought I would have!!! Is it perfect? NO! I know this, everyone knows this. Will everyone LOVE the style and all of the stories? NO! Is the CGI straight off an Avatar budget? Nope. No one paid me millions, lol!!! This is normal for dino docs. Its a little different as I happen to be a dino lover and so hang around dino forums. Most of my coworkers are not into dinos. It was a job. So I'll be on here with the rest of you, through the thick and thin, the dodgey animation, the glaring compositing errors, the slighty over anthro'd dinos in some places and the amazingness in others. It was fun! Have fun with it! If you don't like some it of it is OKAY!!! I just want to make sure you guys are able to dicuss and have your free opinions about anything you want. Go for it!!!! I WELCOME your input:) Anyway, I just want to say that. I respect all of you and your opinions and your fantastic help on my paleoart. I grow as an artist because of you guys. We all do. Dino people are a special group and we should be free to discuss anything about them or how they are portrayed. So again, it is totally cool. I'm not offended. I look forawrd to your thoughts! Don't like a story? Say it! Love the rainbow dinosaur? Cool! Wish they were grey with stripes? Cool! Its all good in my world ;D So just attempt to keep it a nice discussion, but go for it!!! You guys are my friends, no worries. David is not worried as well. We know this and are fine. ;D ;D ;D PS: Yes, they are showing you all the different, the funny and the "cool" fighting stuff. There are also moments of tradgey, some very well done touching moments, things not screaming, etc. It is a braod range from non-serious, funny, dumb stuff, serious stuff, sad stuff, etc. More than likely you will find something you connect to. The two "sagas" are the Rex and the Al stories. Which is why I'm annoyed they released the clip with the Torvo and Al because it made no sense to everyone and looks like we have everything fighting eachother. Maybe you won't dig any of it and that is fine! No problem! I just wanna make sure you guys are OK with the fact that you are allowed to tear it apart. I am happy to hear the models are holding up. Miragaia is one of mine and I was concerned I did something wrong. Not sure if you thought they looked good or not. Of course they showed you them out of context though ;D |
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Post by Himmapaan on Aug 22, 2011 1:58:21 GMT
All I'm going to say for now is: Brava, Angie.  You have my eternal respect (not that it was ever otherwise to begin with!) *Kowtows* |
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Post by Sparkleopteryx on Aug 22, 2011 2:17:40 GMT
All I'm going to say for now is: Brava, Angie. You have my eternal respect (not that it was ever otherwise to begin with!) *Kowtows* Awe, shucks. Thanks. Nah, I just want to make sure everyone is cool and that it is alright to discuss and not to worry. I like ya guys and am not offended in the least. So I was just worried a bit that to much of a rift has been built up and I'm gonna try and just throw some flowers out here to everyone You guys are all cool in my book. Do this when you see a rainbow dinosaur..."ANGIE!!!!! Why does that thing look like a rainbow puked on it!!!!  ??" LOL! Today my mom emailed me and said "I love the little, flying rainbow things!!!....but you should have made the mushrooms more realistic. They don't look real enough." LOL!!!! Its all good;) Thanks again for this:) |
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??" LOL!