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Post by arioch on Oct 1, 2011 17:56:27 GMT
It is quite accepted nowadays. Seriously, we have tons of different lambeosaurines anywhere in the globe or just in N. America during the Campanian with the weirdest shaped crests, and same with ceratopsians, either long or short frilled ones with the most bizarrely arranged horns. But later in the Maastrichtian America all seem to be hadrosaurine holotypes which ressemble edmontosaurs in different ontogenic stages, or Triceratops/torosaurus variations. They seem to have flowed eventually into a single mold. In terms of numbers, animals are also more scarce than 10-5 million years ago. Hell Creek and other analogue formations have been digged enough to realize this, so we can´t say this is due to a poor research or something like that. Although the research never ends, this is not more of a "guess" than the assumption of non avian dinosaurs becaming extinct 65 millions years ago.
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Post by Minnesota Jones on Oct 25, 2011 20:37:23 GMT
I think it's a juvinelle. But that's my guess. I just recently hit the Burpee Museum in Rockford IL and got to see Jane in person. Wonderful fossil! Very "lanky" - like a big puppy. In person, you could see this animal "growing up" into a full size Tyrannosaur. The thing is, like Jack Horner has been saying the last few years, just how many "genera" or "species" are really juvinelle (or mature for that matter) versions of other dinosaurs? It's a great question. Horner has a ton of info on Hadrosaurs and juvinelle hadrosaurs. And there has to be juvinelle T. rexes out there, right? As well as juvinelle Triceratops, etc. It can't just be all fossils are mature adults. It does get you thinking about growth rates and changes in appearance.  Me and Jane Personally, I think this is about the most exiting time there is in paleontology. Heck, we're finding out more nowadays about stuff we've already found years ago than new stuff in the field practically! Oh, if you ever get to Rockford, you HAVE to go see Jane. Here's my webpage I just created on my visit there: www.minnesotajones.com/burpee_museum_of_natural_history.htm |
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Post by Horridus on Oct 25, 2011 21:16:37 GMT
What's the adult T. rex in the background there, Mr Jones (ie. a cast of which specimen)? I've seen photos of that Jane mount before, but none from that angle. I had no idea the adult was there!
And you're quite right - we are living through a real golden age for palaeontology.
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Post by Minnesota Jones on Oct 25, 2011 21:48:20 GMT
It's a "patchwork" T. rex they have. A piece of one, a part of another... and the toe bones from an Allosaur, go figure!  And call me Minnesota (or Mike), Mr. Jones was my "dad"  |
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Post by Horridus on Oct 25, 2011 21:49:58 GMT
Why the hell would they have toes from an Allosaurus!?!
Based on that photo above, it also appears as if (at least) the left leg is too straight (as the knee has to be flexed in order to articulate). Happens quite a lot though.
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Post by Minnesota Jones on Oct 25, 2011 21:53:29 GMT
That was the very question I asked myself when I was there as well (about the Allosaurus toe bones). Beats me. I just took the photos... |
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Post by Seijun on Oct 25, 2011 23:01:28 GMT
And this is why I don't use museum reconstructions for reference.
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Post by Horridus on Oct 25, 2011 23:22:59 GMT
And this is why I don't use museum reconstructions for reference. That's a good idea. A lot of the time they are outdated composites. |
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Post by dinonikes on Oct 26, 2011 0:44:54 GMT
Man , I havent been out to the Burpee Museum since '96- we did the Native American Hall dioramas there, VERY low budget project with too much to make and not enough time or money to do it. I am not sure if they still have that stuff in there, I had heard they were going to do a lot of revisions of displays out there back around when they found the Jane fossil. I was out there when they were getting it out of the rock, and got to go into the lab and check it out behind the scenes. Have yet to see the mount though. I would be sort of horrified to see the work I did out there after all these years. Its hard when you are in a position where you cant do your best work due to constraints. I f you like the prehistoric models out there like the coal forest diorama and the sea dioramas, those were done by Chase Studios right before we did our work out there. I was told that they had no budget for the Native American Hall because the Chase projects were so expensive they ate up funds. Chase had a reputation for being expensive, but dang they make such beautiful models, worth the price in my opinion. I highly recommend googling their studio website and perusing their prehistoric models and dioramas- especially their reef dioramas and cephalpods and such. Simply gorgeous stuff.
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Post by fooman666 on Oct 26, 2011 5:57:05 GMT
I myself see it as a juvenile rex, but their seems to be mounting evidence to the contrary. so im really not sure
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Post by Minnesota Jones on Oct 26, 2011 13:08:45 GMT
...If you like the prehistoric models out there like the coal forest diorama and the sea dioramas, those were done by Chase Studios right before we did our work out there... Simply gorgeous stuff. Oh yeah, I took a ton of photos of both the coal forest and the Ordivician sea. Since the Ordivician is the age of the fossils around my parts, it was great to show my wife what the stuff we were finding actually looked like 450 million years ago. Seeing it in person sure beat looking at photos in a book. Very beautiful...  My wife went up to the Native American exhibits. I just couldn't get away from the dinosaurs... |
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weaver
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Post by weaver on Oct 26, 2011 17:19:55 GMT
I went to the Burpee oh about oh about 6 years ago and I was convinced that 'Jane' was a juv. Tyrannosaurus rex but now, I'm not sure. Loved the reconstruction (but toes seemed weird to me then) and well, ah heck. Burpee was still a fun museum. <3 dinonikes: Wow! Chase Studios... when you mentioned the Coal Forest at Burpee I began to wonder if the Fields' Coal Forest exhibit was what it was based upon. I think Chase did a better job with more modern materials and it looks incredible. Ah, what a job that would be to work for Chase. Hard-work but I'd be willing.  @minnesota Jones: All the normal folks go an look at the other exhibits while we are stuck perusing the dinosaurs. XD |
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Post by dinonikes on Oct 26, 2011 18:46:39 GMT
I went to the Burpee oh about oh about 6 years ago and I was convinced that 'Jane' was a juv. Tyrannosaurus rex but now, I'm not sure. Loved the reconstruction (but toes seemed weird to me then) and well, ah heck. Burpee was still a fun museum. <3 dinonikes: Wow! Chase Studios... when you mentioned the Coal Forest at Burpee I began to wonder if the Fields' Coal Forest exhibit was what it was based upon. I think Chase did a better job with more modern materials and it looks incredible. Ah, what a job that would be to work for Chase. Hard-work but I'd be willing. Chase Studios did the walk through coal forest diorama at the Field that basically replaced the classic diorama that used to be at one end of the dinosaur hall at the Field- the old diorama is the finest coal forest diorama ever produced- bar none- the newer ones that are made by studios today use a lot of ready bought silk foliage and plants as canopy filler- the old diorama had ALL of the foliage custom made per fossil evidence- there will never be one like it again-it was a real shame that the Field decided to remove it to replace with the walk through diorama- the detail of the new diorama is far below the standard set by the old 30's diorama which makes all of the newer dioramas pale in comparison- |
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weaver
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Post by weaver on Oct 27, 2011 0:01:32 GMT
Ah. I was wondering about that. See, I think I saw the old one (with all the hand-crafted leaves and plants) by Dahlgren as a child. Maybe that's why the last time I was in the forest I noticed an odd dust on the plants.
I think a few of the old replica plants are still on display in other exhibits but I'd have to go back and look again. Ah, well. Times change. I'd like the Field to do an exhibit on some of the exhibits that they have in storage from the old days.
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Post by dinonikes on Oct 27, 2011 4:20:13 GMT
As I understood it, the Field gave the old 30's coal forest diorama to Chase when he did the walk through diorama, along with all of the series of prehistoric underwater sea /reef dioramas by George Marchand that used to be featured in their geology hall off of the dinosaur hall. This was all during their renovation/ destruction of the old dinosaur hall when they did the Walk through Time revamp (not sure exactly what the name was journey through time maybe). If you are not familiar with George Marchand, he was a pioneer in the museum diorama world- his prehistoric reefs and models of the various periods of geological time are still to be seen in many museums, mainly the smaller university ones as a lot of the larger museums have removed them in modern revamps of their galleries. I still think his dioramas are fabulous, they are to be seen also in many books used as illustrations. From what I heard, Chase was his protege, and took over when he retired continuing his legacy. Sorry for the derail of the thread, thats all from me on the subject.
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