|
Post by Tyrannax on Oct 29, 2008 6:08:23 GMT
The truth is tail drag marks exist, but their rare. This shows us that dinosaurs were capable of moving, and of getting into various positions, just like the *shock, horror* real life animals that they were! The natural position was tail up. The tail could have touched the ground for any number of reasons. Walking in a crouched position, rearing a bit, sinking a bit in mud, swishing the tail around, etc. There's a famous impression of a dilophosaur track, with footprints halfway up the leg, and the impression of the pubic boot visible. Does this mean we're wrong in showing dilophosaurs walking erect, and they actually walked on their butt? No... it means they *gasp*... SAT DOWN once in a while! I know, it's hard to imagine theropods doing anything but running around full speed roaring after prey 24/7, but we're just gonna have to get used to these kinds of shocking discoveries. actually, it never made sense to me that they would be active all the time. Wouldn't they be conserving energy for when they were hunting. Lions lay around sleeping or resting all the time. And, when they have just eaten they don't tend to attack again. Not like the JP portrayal of a Rex that would abandon a fresh dino carcass to go running after a buncha lil' people. But, of course they rested. I do have one nagging question though. If sauropod necks were all stiff and such, how did a Brachiosaurus get a drink? Intresting question, but there is a simple answer. It was basically a 5 story tall giraffe. It spread its forelegs out to the side, allowing itself to dip its neck down much like a giraffe and drink. Yes, some theropods were thought to bask in the sun to gain energy, but some were actually warm blooded and didn't have to do this. Spinosaurus, for example, probably used its sail to heat itself during a cold day. Another possiblity is it could have used its sail for mating, but this is unlikely as Ouranosaurus (Herbivorous dinosaur which lived in the same place as Spinosaurus) also had a sail. It is rare for two species which existed in the same area at the same time or recently to have the same mating techniques. This is why the "Heating Itself" belief is more popularly believed. Tyrannosaurus however, was most likely warm blooded. This meant he didn't have to bask in the sun like modern reptiles. He could stay active (This unfortunately supports the scavenger theory) and walk long distances with this advantage. He, however, was not a scavenger in the least. Like most predators, he was most likely an opportunist. This means he hunted and scavenged, depending on the circumstances. Being warm-blooded also supports the fact (As well as having good depth perception) that he was in fact the most advanced predatory dinosaur. We see dinosaurs becoming more advanced over time through many examples. Raptors went from big to small, this gave them an advantage over hunting. Megaladon evolved into modern great white sharks. He was simply too large to support. You see, animals advance through evolution over time.
|
|
|
Post by tetonbabydoll on Oct 29, 2008 8:43:52 GMT
Are Brachio's legs able to pull off this maneuver, both in terms of proportion and strength? Would make one hell of a weird image! P know this is the most logical and simplest explanation, so probably true, but has anybody tried to find out if it is possible? from a scientific standpoint?
|
|
|
Post by Tyrannax on Oct 29, 2008 16:42:21 GMT
Are Brachio's legs able to pull off this maneuver, both in terms of proportion and strength? Would make one hell of a weird image! P know this is the most logical and simplest explanation, so probably true, but has anybody tried to find out if it is possible? from a scientific standpoint? Obviously BBC thought so, as they had a Brach pull this off. Its, as far as I know, the only logical way a Brachiosaur could dip its head down.
|
|
|
Post by tomhet on Oct 29, 2008 17:12:43 GMT
Actually Ouranosaurus and Spinosaurus didn't coexist, did they? They lived in the same place though.
|
|
|
Post by Tyrannax on Oct 29, 2008 21:38:56 GMT
Actually Ouranosaurus and Spinosaurus didn't coexist, did they? They lived in the same place though. Sorry, I don't think so. Meant to say that animals with similar advances that live in the same area (Although at different times.) usually don't use them for mating purposes. I'll try to find a link iwht more info. (Thanks tomhet for pointing that out!) "Heat regulator. If the sail contained abundant blood vessels, the animal could have used the sail's large surface area to absorb heat. This would imply that the animal was only partly warm-blooded at best and lived in climates where nighttime temperatures were cool or low and the sky usually not cloudy. It is thought that Spinosaurus and Ouranosaurus both lived in or at the margins of an earlier version of the Sahara Desert Sahara The Sahara is the world's largest hot desert , and second largest desert at over 9,000,000 km, a ...
, which could explain this. It is also possible that the sail was used to radiate excess heat from the body, rather than to collect it. Large animals, due to the relatively small ratio of surface area of their body compared to the overall volume , face far greater problems of dissipating excess heat at higher temperatures than gaining it at lower. Sails of these dinosaurs added considerably to the skin area of the body, with minimum increase of volume. Furthermore, if the sail was turned away from the sun, or positioned at a 90 degree angle towards a cooling wind, the animal would quite effectivly cool itself in the warm climate of Cretaceous Africa. Sexual display. Elaborate body structures of many modern-day animals usually serve to attract members of opposite sex during mating. It is quite possible that the sails of these dinosaurus were used for courtship, in a way similar to a peacock Peafowl
The term peafowl can refer to any of three species of bird in the genera Pavo' ...
's tail. If this was the case, the sails may have been brightly colored, but this is purely speculative"
|
|
|
Post by stoneage on Oct 29, 2008 23:08:01 GMT
;D Actually both Spinosaurus and Ouransaurus lived during the Early Cretaceous in Northern Africa. But Ouranosaurus died out about the time Spinosaurus began. They may have missed each other by a few million years. Other Dinosaurs from the same region did not have great big sails. Which tends to make me thing they were for sexual display. The Dicraeosaurids sauropods unlike the dinosaurs above had split neural spines so they had a double sail. These Dinosaurs lived earlier then the ones above. Armargasaurus and Brachtrachelopan were from Argentina. So much for your heat theories!
|
|
|
Post by Tyrannax on Oct 30, 2008 1:18:05 GMT
;D Actually both Spinosaurus and Ouransaurus lived during the Early Cretaceous in Northern Africa. But Ouranosaurus died out about the time Spinosaurus began. They may have missed each other by a few million years. Other Dinosaurs from the same region did not have great big sails. Which tends to make me thing they were for sexual display. The Dicraeosaurids sauropods unlike the dinosaurs above had split neural spines so they had a double sail. These Dinosaurs lived earlier then the ones above. Armargasaurus and Brachtrachelopan were from Argentina. So much for your heat theories! OMG, you just proved me wrong. You've sent a tremor through scientific study! Theories have their flaws. What makes you think the sexual display theory is correct? Just for the redord, I'm not big on the debate on which reason Spinosaurus' sail was for. To be honest I'd have to read up on it before completely siding with a theory. However, after reading about it's sail it sounded reasonable to me that this was probably used to heat itself. Once I read more about it and when you prove the heating theory wrong, we can go on.
|
|
|
Post by stoneage on Oct 30, 2008 2:12:45 GMT
;D Actually both Spinosaurus and Ouransaurus lived during the Early Cretaceous in Northern Africa. But Ouranosaurus died out about the time Spinosaurus began. They may have missed each other by a few million years. Other Dinosaurs from the same region did not have great big sails. Which tends to make me thing they were for sexual display. The Dicraeosaurids sauropods unlike the dinosaurs above had split neural spines so they had a double sail. These Dinosaurs lived earlier then the ones above. Armargasaurus and Brachtrachelopan were from Argentina. So much for your heat theories! OMG, you just proved me wrong. You've sent a tremor through scientific study! Theories have their flaws. What makes you think the sexual display theory is correct? Just for the redord, I'm not big on the debate on which reason Spinosaurus' sail was for. To be honest I'd have to read up on it before completely siding with a theory. However, after reading about it's sail it sounded reasonable to me that this was probably used to heat itself. Once I read more about it and when you prove the heating theory wrong, we can go on. ;D I can't prove that the heat theory is wrong. But since very few Dinosaurs seem to need Sails I feel it probably wasn't to regulate temperature. Also in the case of Spinosaurus he lived near water and possibly spent a lot of time in it. This would have its own cooling effect. I just feel that the evidence I have seen so far tends to favor sexual display. The answer could be none of the above.
|
|
|
Post by Tyrannax on Oct 30, 2008 2:30:47 GMT
OMG, you just proved me wrong. You've sent a tremor through scientific study! Theories have their flaws. What makes you think the sexual display theory is correct? Just for the redord, I'm not big on the debate on which reason Spinosaurus' sail was for. To be honest I'd have to read up on it before completely siding with a theory. However, after reading about it's sail it sounded reasonable to me that this was probably used to heat itself. Once I read more about it and when you prove the heating theory wrong, we can go on. ;D I can't prove that the heat theory is wrong. But since very few Dinosaurs seem to need Sails I feel it probably wasn't to regulate temperature. Also in the case of Spinosaurus he lived near water and possibly spent a lot of time in it. This would have its own cooling effect. I just feel that the evidence I have seen so far tends to favor sexual display. The answer could be none of the above. Yes, the fact that very few dinosaurs had sails did strike me. Why would one species use a sail for cooling itself? Why didn't Tyrannosaurus use a sail to cool himself off? He was warm-blooded. Maybe Spinosaurus was also warm-blooded and did in fact use his sail for sexual display. And your right, it could be none of the above. Maybe even to make itself look bigger and scare off predators possibly due to the fact that it may have just had a diet consisting of fish and it's mouth wasn't built for biting large animals. What do you think? (And its teeth were long and fragil, but great for catching massive fish.
|
|
|
Post by Dinotoyforum on Nov 10, 2008 15:55:44 GMT
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081107163306.htmsee! see! ;D "Paleontologists Doubt 'Dinosaur Dance Floor' ScienceDaily (Nov. 8, 2008) — A group of paleontologists visited the northern Arizona wilderness site nicknamed a "dinosaur dance floor" and concluded there were no dinosaur tracks there, only a dense collection of unusual potholes eroded in the sandstone."
|
|
|
Post by sid on Nov 10, 2008 17:43:01 GMT
As i said in the past,even if those tracks will be found to be fake,this doesn't debunk the FACT,as Thag said,sometimes dinosaurs dragged their tails ;D
|
|
|
Post by Tyrannax on Nov 10, 2008 20:00:44 GMT
Do scientists even investigate? Do they look for, say, claw markings? Or do they just conclude the research and say its footprints?
I'm going to read the rest of that article...
|
|
|
Post by [][][]cordylus[][][] on Nov 10, 2008 21:19:19 GMT
actually, it never made sense to me that they would be active all the time. Wouldn't they be conserving energy for when they were hunting. Lions lay around sleeping or resting all the time. And, when they have just eaten they don't tend to attack again. Not like the JP portrayal of a Rex that would abandon a fresh dino carcass to go running after a buncha lil' people. But, of course they rested. I do have one nagging question though. If sauropod necks were all stiff and such, how did a Brachiosaurus get a drink? Intresting question, but there is a simple answer. It was basically a 5 story tall giraffe. It spread its forelegs out to the side, allowing itself to dip its neck down much like a giraffe and drink. Yes, some theropods were thought to bask in the sun to gain energy, but some were actually warm blooded and didn't have to do this. Spinosaurus, for example, probably used its sail to heat itself during a cold day. Another possiblity is it could have used its sail for mating, but this is unlikely as Ouranosaurus (Herbivorous dinosaur which lived in the same place as Spinosaurus) also had a sail. It is rare for two species which existed in the same area at the same time or recently to have the same mating techniques. This is why the "Heating Itself" belief is more popularly believed. Tyrannosaurus however, was most likely warm blooded. This meant he didn't have to bask in the sun like modern reptiles. He could stay active (This unfortunately supports the scavenger theory) and walk long distances with this advantage. He, however, was not a scavenger in the least. Like most predators, he was most likely an opportunist. This means he hunted and scavenged, depending on the circumstances. Being warm-blooded also supports the fact (As well as having good depth perception) that he was in fact the most advanced predatory dinosaur. We see dinosaurs becoming more advanced over time through many examples. Raptors went from big to small, this gave them an advantage over hunting. Megaladon evolved into modern great white sharks. He was simply too large to support. You see, animals advance through evolution over time. Megalodon did not evolve into white sharks. They both share a common ancestor, but great whites evolved from prehistoric mako sharks.
|
|
|
Post by [][][]cordylus[][][] on Nov 10, 2008 21:20:13 GMT
Actually Ouranosaurus and Spinosaurus didn't coexist, did they? They lived in the same place though. I always thought they did....
|
|
|
Post by [][][]cordylus[][][] on Nov 10, 2008 21:23:14 GMT
;D I can't prove that the heat theory is wrong. But since very few Dinosaurs seem to need Sails I feel it probably wasn't to regulate temperature. Also in the case of Spinosaurus he lived near water and possibly spent a lot of time in it. This would have its own cooling effect. I just feel that the evidence I have seen so far tends to favor sexual display. The answer could be none of the above. Yes, the fact that very few dinosaurs had sails did strike me. Why would one species use a sail for cooling itself? Why didn't Tyrannosaurus use a sail to cool himself off? He was warm-blooded. Maybe Spinosaurus was also warm-blooded and did in fact use his sail for sexual display. And your right, it could be none of the above. Maybe even to make itself look bigger and scare off predators possibly due to the fact that it may have just had a diet consisting of fish and it's mouth wasn't built for biting large animals. What do you think? (And its teeth were long and fragil, but great for catching massive fish. That is what I think. why would a predator be stupid enough to mess with another predator that was 50 feet long and had a huge sail on it's back?
|
|
|
Post by Tyrannax on Nov 10, 2008 22:36:21 GMT
Yes, the fact that very few dinosaurs had sails did strike me. Why would one species use a sail for cooling itself? Why didn't Tyrannosaurus use a sail to cool himself off? He was warm-blooded. Maybe Spinosaurus was also warm-blooded and did in fact use his sail for sexual display. And your right, it could be none of the above. Maybe even to make itself look bigger and scare off predators possibly due to the fact that it may have just had a diet consisting of fish and it's mouth wasn't built for biting large animals. What do you think? (And its teeth were long and fragil, but great for catching massive fish. That is what I think. why would a predator be stupid enough to mess with another predator that was 50 feet long and had a huge sail on it's back? No, they didn't co-exist. They lived very close to each other though. Dimetrodons almost undoubtedly used their sails for heating themselves, but I agree with stoneage. I believe they were used sexual display and for scaring off predators. Who needs to hunt big prey when you can catch huge fish and keep predators at bay? That rhymed! ;D ;D ;D I call that "The Spinosaurus" That rhyme is copyright. too.
|
|
|
Post by tomhet on Nov 10, 2008 22:54:38 GMT
^^^ About Dimetrodon, Sphenacodon was almost identical but didn't have a sail and its neural spines were much shorter. Scientists can't still figure out why.
|
|
|
Post by [][][]cordylus[][][] on Nov 10, 2008 23:07:34 GMT
That is what I think. why would a predator be stupid enough to mess with another predator that was 50 feet long and had a huge sail on it's back? No, they didn't co-exist. They lived very close to each other though. I meant any predator that lived alongside spino.
|
|
|
Post by Tyrannax on Nov 10, 2008 23:12:52 GMT
No, they didn't co-exist. They lived very close to each other though. I meant any predator that lived alongside spino. I see.
|
|
|
Post by thagomizer on Nov 11, 2008 8:05:09 GMT
Do scientists even investigate? Do they look for, say, claw markings? Or do they just conclude the research and say its footprints? I'm going to read the rest of that article... That's how they found the 'prints' were suspect. Geologists found them, wrote a press release, and assumed they were dino prints. Actual dinosaur experts check them out, and said, probably not, pending further study.
|
|