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Post by stoneage on Jan 4, 2009 18:48:26 GMT
;D Why are dromaeosaurids overated? ;D
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Post by arioch on Jan 4, 2009 21:24:13 GMT
People tend to think they were super fast perfect killers, with an amazing intelligence...but actually they look like more a big predatory flyless and slow birds. I doubt they were capable to kill something bigger and more dangerous than a hypsilophodontid, though they were in fact quite deadly. But not so much as popular culture portrays them.
Not to mention those who thinks seriously that a pack of them (considering the doubtful pack behaviour) could face a tyrannosaur or something of the same size. Meh. Shame the too enthusiastic paleontologist and experts wannabe, and the silly shows like JFC who are endorsed for them. But this comes from a long time ago, even before Jurassic Park novels...
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Post by tetonbabydoll on Jan 4, 2009 22:02:38 GMT
He does have a point here guys. Raptors are EVERYWHERE these days. You'd think they and REX were the only dang dinos around. When was the last dino movie, or docu, to not have at least one raptor??
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Post by [][][]cordylus[][][] on Jan 4, 2009 22:16:44 GMT
I think no dinosaur is overrated. They are all awesome. How can you think they are not all awesome and worthy of attention?!
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Post by arioch on Jan 4, 2009 22:35:28 GMT
One thing is give attention to an animal and another convert it in a incoherent movie monster to sell more and more and more toys.... Well sorry, i forget the forum where i am. But we must keep a balance between scientific accuracy and dino fanatism, if this is possible!
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Post by Tyrannax on Jan 4, 2009 23:17:28 GMT
I certainly wouldn't want to mess with a Deinonychus, which would have been just as deadly as the raptors from Jurassic park. Not the door opening parts of course, but they certainly would have torn up any dinosaur our size. ;D
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Post by arioch on Jan 4, 2009 23:35:38 GMT
The Jurassic Park deinonychus are in fact too clumsy. They can open doors, but mistake the reflection of the girl in the metal table.. lol. And they always attack with the jaws, even after Grant tells to the fat kid how they used their claws... but maybe the raptors didnt noticed it. And the stupidity they showed atacking the rex at the end... This defective DNA... Is in the Crichton book where they are overrated....there they made mistakes, but look a lot more clever.
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Post by crazycrowman on Jan 5, 2009 7:01:17 GMT
"State that Harris hawks hunt like wolves is superficial and imprecise, and no more than an adorned half-truth. But in scientific publications, this vague but attractive sentences are acceptable because it helps to the diffusion of it...though it don´t make the article less valid. I hope you get my point now." No, you have proven though you have read little, and studied little about bird behavior in general. I gave plenty of examples of the EXACT behaviors you just asked for above. (crows attacking deer fawns, crows and hawks and such, living in extended family groups, etc) There are plenty available. You simply seem to be ignoring them. It is frustrating. (I am adding this from a hotel in South Carolina
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Post by arioch on Jan 5, 2009 8:25:41 GMT
A deer fawn is not what id call a big or dangerous prey for a bird of that size...but, tell me, did the crows killed the deer? they attacked him coordinately and following some patterns, searching his weakness, EXACTLY like the wolves do? cause you´re suggesting that. Notice that im not ignoring the great sociability of birds. But when it comes to hunt, it isnt at same level of mammals. You dont look like the most impartial person when we speak about birds, you know (c´mon, look at you . Will you get angry if i wont admit that the birds are the best of the best are more social than mammals?
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Post by crazycrowman on Jan 5, 2009 15:34:27 GMT
"A deer fawn is not what id call a big or dangerous prey for a bird of that size...but, tell me, did the crows killed the deer? they attacked him coordinately and following some patterns, searching his weakness, EXACTLY like the wolves do? cause you´re suggesting that."
The fawns were roughly 10lbs - the birds about a pound each. The birds observed were not seen making a kill. Corvids DO attack coordinately, have been observed and studied doing so, do follow patterns(though, patterned/instinctual behavior is not really flexible behavior, and that is one of the things that is most amazing about animals like corvids and great apes, the ability to adapt your abilities to a specific situation regardless of "patterned" behaviors - and they show MORE of this then wolves or lions), searching for animals weaknesses. You are clearly painfully ignorant regarding bird behavior - despite all the sources out there, some that I have provided.
As far as impartial, I am being impartial. I like birds, but a huge part of the reason that I like birds is due to the complexity of their behaviors. We were initially discussing pack related behaviors among theropod dinosaurs. I was, and continue to address that modern birds do indeed hunt cooperatively, (that you somehow decry without anything to back it but your own opinion) I have provided information and facts to support my "claims" that at least in regards to corvids, we have documented material that shows these animals living, working with co specifics, and HUNTING on a level of complexity that is quite comparable to "higher" mammals.
"Will you get angry if i wont admit that the birds are the best of the best are more social than mammals?"
Not at all. I do get frustrated by people who make arguments and try to stand behind them without being informed. You CONTINUE to do just that. I am done discussing this with you. You seem to have no intent to make yourself more knowledgeable on the subject.
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Post by arioch on Jan 5, 2009 17:27:52 GMT
You don´t deceive me: you´re angry with me! ;D If you calm down you will notice that i won´t question you, but trying be more specific. So...ok..The corvids were not making a kill with the deer? then, why they attacked him? and how why know theyre able to kill it, then? I was, and continue to address that modern birds do indeed hunt cooperatively, (that you somehow decry without anything to back it but your own opinion) I have provided information and facts to support my "claims" that at least in regards to corvids, we have documented material that shows these animals living, working with co specifics, and HUNTING on a level of complexity that is quite comparable to "higher" mammals. Quite comparable is not equal, at most a bit lower and less sophisticated. But thats what i wanted to hear and prove what ive been saying. Does corvids have more potential than felines or canids? sure, in several ways! but when the corvid kill rate of big prey exceeds theirs, then ill change my mind. Ravens are, like you say, extraordinary smart birds, much more than any other dinosaur theropod existing, including troodontids, could been. That rule out practically all paralelism in the complexity of behaviour, too.
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Post by sid on Jan 5, 2009 19:34:24 GMT
Arioch seems to hat or at least despise good ol' Raptors...Why,mighty lord of Chaos,you don't like 'em?
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Post by itstwentybelow on Jan 5, 2009 23:56:16 GMT
I agree with crazycrowman on birds hunting together cooperatively. I recently watched a show on Animal Planet (I think it was called "Killing For A Living") which actually showed a group of four hawks working together to kill a hare. I'd heard of this sort of behavior before but this is pretty clear evidence, I mean I WATCHED them do it. One of them flushed it out toward the others, which worked together to close off its escape (a lot like wolves, actually) and they succeeded in killing it, and subsequently all four of them ate it together. Pretty cool stuff, you should take a look at it arioch.
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Post by arioch on Jan 6, 2009 0:30:39 GMT
I will. But anyway, do you really think wolves just surround and elk and attack him randomly until it dies? sigh...there´s sooo many nuances you´re leaving out...its sad.
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Post by itstwentybelow on Jan 6, 2009 2:42:08 GMT
Don't be an idiot of course they don't, and that's certainly not what these hawks did either. It took some serious coordination. What nuances are you talking about? This was caught on film so don't complain about any left out nuances to me, complain to the hawks if you still feel so stubborn about it.
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Post by arioch on Jan 6, 2009 2:54:53 GMT
Oh, maybe i hurted your feelings? Don´t use that tone with me if you wanna talk, please. And i mean the nuances on the wolves, dear friend. It was not so hard to understand in the context i said it . "Idiot"
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Post by Ajax on Jan 6, 2009 3:02:08 GMT
Wheather you do or don't do feathered raptors, I think THIS is just absurd.... The class may now discuss . Very probable, IMO
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Post by tomhet on Jan 6, 2009 3:51:49 GMT
OK, I'm closing this thread. If you start fighting somewhere else, there will be more serious consequences.
Arioch, you're really treading on thin ice. You might want to tone down a little bit your posts if you want to stay in the community.
itstwentybelow, no more insults.
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