Post by foxilized on Mar 4, 2011 6:10:09 GMT
Helping on the knockoffing identification:
-The Tanysthropeus I would say it's absolutely based off the Carnegie, but in a modified pose. This is not strange on other figures, the Maiasaura for example is obviously also a Carnegie, but they slightly modified the pose, something they also slightly did with the Baryonyx and then more obviously on the Parasaurolophus.
-Styracosaurus. This is a Battat styraco in origin.
-The Velociraptor is a difficult one but I am sure it's based off the Safari one. I say based off, since it's not a direct copycap. But the more evident proof are the grey eye-ridges on both figures.
About the rest:
-T-Rex (you got it 100% right)
-Trike (also already spotted up in the thread!) Bullyland retired Soft version
-Spino (you was 100% right on this one too, pretty obvious one ^^)
-Parasaurlophus (yes, it's absolutely a Carnegie posed on its four, and the slightly reesculpted hands and feet) Take a look:
-Stegosaurus. Not sure. Could be either the Schleich baby
or the retired Carnegie
-Pterano. Bullyland
-Dime. Bullyland
-Cory. Schleich.
-Elasmo. Carnegie.
-Dilo. Carnegie.
-Allosaurus. Couldn't find the guy, sorry, but It's a Bullyland very old, retired one, same as ugly as the Salvat. I am unsure if the original Bullyland was also an Allo though, but probably was. I couldn't find any d**n pic on the web, but I saw this guy in ebay a couple of times. Maybe anybody can contribute with the missing pic?
-Saichania. The main inspiration is Carnegie Euoplo
but also got some details off Schleich saichania
-Maiasaura. It's pretty obvious.
-Cerato. Obvious too, Schleich.
-Iguano. Carnegie
with Toyway WWD colors
-Deino. Carnegie.
-Psittaco. Carnegie.
-Brachio. retired Bullyland.
-Diplod. Carnegie
-Krono. Carnegie.
-Carnotaurus. Carnegie.
-Plateo. Carnegie.
-Polacan. Toyway WWD.
-Postosuchs. Toyway WWD.
-Saltasaurus. Carnegie.
-Apato. Retired Bullyland
... it also strongly resembles Larami (-even though I doubt Salvat would bootlegged an actual bootleg, so cheap and low quality fig as this Larami, though... but who knows...)
-Toro. Toyway wwd
-Utahraptor. Safati (modified pose)
-Galli. Battat
-Quetzal.Carnegie.
-Pachy. Wild Safari.
-Bary. Carnegie.
-Acro. Battat.
-Mosa. Carnegie.
-Ourano. Battat
-Amarga. Battat
-Theri. Safari
---------------------------------------------------------
I also think that response was a little over the top, gfxtwin, even though I absolutely understand what you mean. In objective terms of quality and originality, the Salvats are a zero. But the collector world is different, you value items under different rules.
In the case of the Salvats, it's essentially their rarity and the fact that were only avaiable on Brasil/Portugal/Spain what you pay for. It's basically the same as happens with old figures like
www.dinosaurcollector.150m.com/Miller.htm
These are really ugly and made on a pretty bad quality plastic, yet if you want one be prepared to pay huge cash for it -and it may even be broken-. Other figures as old as these are way cheaper. In this case you pay the rarity and the exclusivity.
Also when a "crazy" millionaire collector decides to pay a lot for a figure, it autocatically becomes an expensive item, wich only the ones who can pay for it can have it. It's a symbol of status, among other collectors. This is the way it works. When you rationally observe the figure you realize it's hugely overprized but again, the price is not on the figure itself, but what it represents. It's all about social status. If you have one, you are "someone".
I say this not judging it as "good" or "bad", this is just the way collectionism works. If you are millionaire you have the right to do what you want with your money. If you are poor -as we mostly are- it's no use to complain on rich collectors who increase the price of figures, since they have absolutely the right to do it. If you are poor, sorry, but it simply means you cannot have everything you want. Period.
And btw, are you conscious that bootlegs and knock-offs are seriously desired collector pieces? Sometimes collectors desire bootlegs and copies even more than the originals, because the bootlegs are more rare and exclusive. Take a look at the price "Masters of the Universe" collectors pay for bootlegs and copies, sometimes like 10 times more than for the official toylines. Same happens with prototypes of the figures, non-finished figures made before the commercial releases in the production process (these are true gems for a collector).
Finally, I personally LOVE bootlegs. Really. If you want to make a diorama and need a herd of dinosaurs, it's very boring simply putting several examples of the same figure again and again. The ideal is to have several different figures, each of them individually different in small details but still similar enough to look like they belong to the very same species. The best way to achieve this is with variations of a figure: the original one + repaints + remaked re-releases + bootlegs/knockoffs.
-The Tanysthropeus I would say it's absolutely based off the Carnegie, but in a modified pose. This is not strange on other figures, the Maiasaura for example is obviously also a Carnegie, but they slightly modified the pose, something they also slightly did with the Baryonyx and then more obviously on the Parasaurolophus.
-Styracosaurus. This is a Battat styraco in origin.
-The Velociraptor is a difficult one but I am sure it's based off the Safari one. I say based off, since it's not a direct copycap. But the more evident proof are the grey eye-ridges on both figures.
About the rest:
-T-Rex (you got it 100% right)
-Trike (also already spotted up in the thread!) Bullyland retired Soft version
-Spino (you was 100% right on this one too, pretty obvious one ^^)
-Parasaurlophus (yes, it's absolutely a Carnegie posed on its four, and the slightly reesculpted hands and feet) Take a look:
-Stegosaurus. Not sure. Could be either the Schleich baby
or the retired Carnegie
-Pterano. Bullyland
-Dime. Bullyland
-Cory. Schleich.
-Elasmo. Carnegie.
-Dilo. Carnegie.
-Allosaurus. Couldn't find the guy, sorry, but It's a Bullyland very old, retired one, same as ugly as the Salvat. I am unsure if the original Bullyland was also an Allo though, but probably was. I couldn't find any d**n pic on the web, but I saw this guy in ebay a couple of times. Maybe anybody can contribute with the missing pic?
-Saichania. The main inspiration is Carnegie Euoplo
but also got some details off Schleich saichania
-Maiasaura. It's pretty obvious.
-Cerato. Obvious too, Schleich.
-Iguano. Carnegie
with Toyway WWD colors
-Deino. Carnegie.
-Psittaco. Carnegie.
-Brachio. retired Bullyland.
-Diplod. Carnegie
-Krono. Carnegie.
-Carnotaurus. Carnegie.
-Plateo. Carnegie.
-Polacan. Toyway WWD.
-Postosuchs. Toyway WWD.
-Saltasaurus. Carnegie.
-Apato. Retired Bullyland
... it also strongly resembles Larami (-even though I doubt Salvat would bootlegged an actual bootleg, so cheap and low quality fig as this Larami, though... but who knows...)
-Toro. Toyway wwd
-Utahraptor. Safati (modified pose)
-Galli. Battat
-Quetzal.Carnegie.
-Pachy. Wild Safari.
-Bary. Carnegie.
-Acro. Battat.
-Mosa. Carnegie.
-Ourano. Battat
-Amarga. Battat
-Theri. Safari
---------------------------------------------------------
I also think that response was a little over the top, gfxtwin, even though I absolutely understand what you mean. In objective terms of quality and originality, the Salvats are a zero. But the collector world is different, you value items under different rules.
In the case of the Salvats, it's essentially their rarity and the fact that were only avaiable on Brasil/Portugal/Spain what you pay for. It's basically the same as happens with old figures like
www.dinosaurcollector.150m.com/Miller.htm
These are really ugly and made on a pretty bad quality plastic, yet if you want one be prepared to pay huge cash for it -and it may even be broken-. Other figures as old as these are way cheaper. In this case you pay the rarity and the exclusivity.
Also when a "crazy" millionaire collector decides to pay a lot for a figure, it autocatically becomes an expensive item, wich only the ones who can pay for it can have it. It's a symbol of status, among other collectors. This is the way it works. When you rationally observe the figure you realize it's hugely overprized but again, the price is not on the figure itself, but what it represents. It's all about social status. If you have one, you are "someone".
I say this not judging it as "good" or "bad", this is just the way collectionism works. If you are millionaire you have the right to do what you want with your money. If you are poor -as we mostly are- it's no use to complain on rich collectors who increase the price of figures, since they have absolutely the right to do it. If you are poor, sorry, but it simply means you cannot have everything you want. Period.
And btw, are you conscious that bootlegs and knock-offs are seriously desired collector pieces? Sometimes collectors desire bootlegs and copies even more than the originals, because the bootlegs are more rare and exclusive. Take a look at the price "Masters of the Universe" collectors pay for bootlegs and copies, sometimes like 10 times more than for the official toylines. Same happens with prototypes of the figures, non-finished figures made before the commercial releases in the production process (these are true gems for a collector).
Finally, I personally LOVE bootlegs. Really. If you want to make a diorama and need a herd of dinosaurs, it's very boring simply putting several examples of the same figure again and again. The ideal is to have several different figures, each of them individually different in small details but still similar enough to look like they belong to the very same species. The best way to achieve this is with variations of a figure: the original one + repaints + remaked re-releases + bootlegs/knockoffs.