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Post by [][][]cordylus[][][] on Dec 31, 2008 23:44:15 GMT
OK then, SOOOO:
We all believe that dromeosaurs worked together at some point in their lives.
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Post by stoneage on Jan 1, 2009 0:14:30 GMT
I'd like to hear what crazycrowman has to say about it!
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Post by kuni on Jan 1, 2009 0:16:08 GMT
Actually no -- I was talking about the hawks. I suspect dromaeosaurids were both pack hunters and solitary hunters depending on species, much like modern big cats. We seem to have evidence for an array of possible behavior, from Komodo-dragon-like aggregations(the deino+tenot find) to small, likely cooperative social groups (unenlagia trackways).
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Post by arioch on Jan 1, 2009 1:14:22 GMT
I fear youve never seen a pack of wolves hunting, sir . It have nothing to do with that graceful show , absolutely As for the unenlagia tracks, they could be going to fed on a corpse or following a dying animal, just like vultures... So easy to explain... Seriously, open the eyes. A 15 kg predators builded in that way, even if theyr are, lets say, 30, couldnt kill an animal who weights more than 1 ton, they even don´t attempt it. Its unnatural and phisically impossible. I accept they could cooperate to hunt small prey like that hawks do. Its quite plausible, even if the behaviour of that birds is extraordinary and rare.
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Post by [][][]cordylus[][][] on Jan 1, 2009 1:34:46 GMT
^ Could you please re-explain that? I didn't quite understand you.
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Post by arioch on Jan 1, 2009 1:36:09 GMT
Which part?
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Post by [][][]cordylus[][][] on Jan 1, 2009 1:38:14 GMT
All of it.
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Post by arioch on Jan 1, 2009 1:41:04 GMT
Not my fault , then. Sorry. Make some effort.
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Post by kuni on Jan 1, 2009 1:52:47 GMT
I fear youve never seen a pack of wolves hunting, sir . It have nothing to do with that graceful show , absolutely Aside from being condescending...I'm not sure what the point of your comment was. Wolves cooperatively hunt, lions cooperatively hunt, harris hawks cooperatively hunt. Some dromeosaurid species *might* have cooperatively hunted, but it's difficult to tell for sure, and likely varied across the group.
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Post by kuni on Jan 1, 2009 2:21:48 GMT
Seriously, open the eyes. A 15 kg predators builded in that way, even if theyr are, lets say, 30, couldnt kill an animal who weights more than 1 ton, they even don´t attempt it. Its unnatural and phisically impossible. Deinonychus was around 80 kg, a tenotosaur 2000 kg, so 25x its own weight. Haast's Eagle, the now-extinct giant eagle of New Zealand, could have killed 200kg moa, despite weighing around 10kg....20x its own weight, and NOT a pack hunter. I'm not convinced true cooperative hunting was super-common among the dromaesaurids, but it doesn't seem out of the question, particularly with their impressive killing equipment.
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Post by [][][]cordylus[][][] on Jan 1, 2009 2:24:51 GMT
Not my fault , then. Sorry. Make some effort. I didn't know what the "graceful show" was, and are you trying to say that 30 small dromies couldn't kill something big? And I didn't know what you meant by "small prey". Did you mean small mice, small lizards, etc? And I did "make some effort", but I still couldn't understand.
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Post by arioch on Jan 1, 2009 2:27:50 GMT
I fear youve never seen a pack of wolves hunting, sir . It have nothing to do with that graceful show , absolutely Aside from being condescending...I'm not sure what the point of your comment was. Wolves cooperatively hunt, lions cooperatively hunt, harris hawks cooperatively hunt. Some dromeosaurid species *might* have cooperatively hunted, but it's difficult to tell for sure, and likely varied across the group. ... The differences in the complexity between the cooperatively of predator birds and mammals are ABYSMAL. Mammals have pack leaders, studied simultaneous attacks, they share the food and don´t fight against others for the booty, and so on... The birds, not. That "social" Harris hawks fight for the dead rabbit when they have the chance to steal it. If you really think that the dromaeosaurids behaviour was more like wolves than like their present relatives, please, say it now and then ill leave this futile debate.
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Post by [][][]cordylus[][][] on Jan 1, 2009 2:34:04 GMT
Well, I think they could have, not that they necessarily would have. Maybe some were loners. Maybe some hunted in packs. Maybe they only came together annually. Maybe it was something completely different. But this argument is pretty useless, as nobody really wants to change their mind.
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Post by arioch on Jan 1, 2009 2:56:58 GMT
Not my fault , then. Sorry. Make some effort. I didn't know what the " graceful show" was, and are you trying to say that 30 small dromies couldn't kill something big? And I didn't know what you meant by "small prey". Did you mean small mice, small lizards, etc? And I did "make some effort", but I still couldn't understand. I mean the Harris hawks hunt. And no, even if dromies behavied like lions, the couldnt hunt big asses duck bills. C´mon, can the lycaons herds beat elephants? or even lions? they try it? Small prey for me is something plausible to kill for one or some dromies, like hypsilohodontids or young pachycephalosaurs. But i should say better, medium prey, considering their size. Dromaeosaurids/raptors are sooo overrated in popular culture, and you know it.
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Post by tomhet on Jan 1, 2009 3:42:15 GMT
Lions sometimes kill elephants. Why are you using mammals if you want to leave them out of the discussion? And you have no proof that they didn't actually hunt in packs.
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Post by Tyrannax on Jan 1, 2009 3:54:53 GMT
^ Yes, desperate lions do desperate things. Its unlikely, but I've seen lions attack elephants on tape. They don't ever attack large bulls, but go after the smallest they can find....
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Post by arioch on Jan 1, 2009 3:54:56 GMT
Adult elephants? yes, they sure do it everyday. And i´ m using mammals because their cooperative behaviour is by far more complex than the birds one, and if they cant do something, the birds and their relatives have even less possibilities (than 0%). Bah.
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Post by kuni on Jan 1, 2009 4:07:46 GMT
Adult elephants? yes, they sure do it everyday. And i´ m using mammals because their cooperative behaviour is by far more complex than the birds one, and if they cant do something, the birds and their relatives have even less possibilities (than 0%). Bah. Paging crazycrowman...
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Post by arioch on Jan 1, 2009 4:12:20 GMT
Who´s he? your messiah?
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Post by tomhet on Jan 1, 2009 4:21:44 GMT
The behaviour of birds won't tell us anything about dinosaur behaviour though.
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