Cryptozoology

[Dinotoyforum]

The first Video could easily be a man in a suit.
Th pics in the second video, (the one's that are not pieces of artwork anyway), can all be boiled down to the following categories:
1. Pareidolia - could be anything.
2. Obvious hoax
3. Uncertain (which means, if it's a hoax it is not obvious).

The only ones I would put in category 3 are the Patterson photos.

Right - onto the print evidence video...

[Dinotoyforum]

Watched the video.
It didn't explain why they can't be fake.
I could create a print from my back yard - just a few simple tools to sculpt the print and a pack of plaster to take a cast. I could make it as deep as I liked (the equivalent depth of 800lbs, or 10000lbs if I decided to dig deep enough!), and I could add ornamentation and ridges in any orientation I liked.

The 'bulge' in the leg in the Patterson video is suspicious because it only occurs in one frame - I think its a film artifact, you can see there are specks and imperfections all over the place. Someone should check the negative.

The hair doesn't matched humans because it was taken from a zoo.

[Dinotoyforum]

You may also be interested in my take on living plesiosaurs - I wrote this article:
www.plesiosauria.com/hoax.html
It's a similar story to bigfoot.

[richard]

it depends of your definition of cryptozoology to take it or not seriously... cryptozoology involves not only creatures created from people's imagination... there might be much bigger giant squads in the ocean for example (ok not like the kraken... by bigger I mean 18 meters or something like that)

[crazycrowman]

"I guess for me to not believe in bigfoot, there would have to be another species found that would be responsible for all of the evidence."

But, there is! Humans having some fun, Humans who have bad identification skills, and possbly "believe in bigfoot" to begin with, and mangy bears.
d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/net/20071029/capt.76f68acf986b804a0396fc80d63e75c1.jpeg
Maybe the Native Americans may have based bigfoot off of VERY OLD stories of ground sloths, or even fossils of ground sloths or other animals. Maybe they just made it up.

There have been ABSOLUTELY NO FOSSILS of a hominid like primate have been found in North America, I would say it would be more likely that bigfoot stemmed from Giant ground sloths then an ape. Could they still be living and roaming Americas byways ? The problem with that ? If a viable, or even unviable, population of 800lb or even 200lb unidentified animals were roaming about anywhere in the states, we would have at least one specimen by now. We do of all the other legitimate species of large vertebrates here, even the amazingly elusive ones, like the Jaguar. Now, if bigfoot was a small insect, or reptile, ok, then Indeed, he may be passed by, especially by the casual observer, as a "bug" or "lizard", and not properly classified.

"If there was no evidence, there would be no legend of bigfoot in the first place and therefore I wouldn't believe in it."

Do you believe in the Jersey Devil, Easter Bunny and Santa Claus ? What about the Tooth Fairy ? Was that Elvis I just saw down the street ? I am betting not, but I may be wrong.

"Are you suggesting that all of this evidence is going to disappear?"

There is obviously lots of what I suspect to be hoaxes, and misinterpreted materials floating about out there that is passed off as "evidence"...

"I don't get how you can say I would believe if there was no evidence, because there is evidence and it's not going away."

Uhm...again with the "evidence" ? "casts" and "hairs" ? IF for a second legitimate biologists thought there was a chance that there was a real great ape out there, they would be looking. There is not a legitimate SHRED of evidence proving "bigfoot", or any giant 2-800lb "new species" in the USA. Nothing. If this were a small bird we were talking about, (I'll make one up for the sake of this - the warbler sized wrinkled yellow butted purple beanie-screamer) And people around the US claimed to see it, but no one could provide a specimen, scientifically, it would simply be discounted, and rightly so. Look at the Ivory Bill. There is "footage", but it is suspect, and so far, the bird remains elusive. It may be there. Why do I say that ? Because we are talking about a crow sized bird in its ancestral forest range that was proven to be there untill around the 1940's. Though I would love the Ivory bill to still exist, unfortunately, I think its more likely someone mis-Ided a Pileated, possibly a partial albino/pied bird.

The "believers" who had faith that they had seen the beanie screamer/Ivory bill/Bigfoot/Moth man/Thunderbird would indeed continue to show blurry photos and claim it was there, tell stores about thier sightings, pass off nests of other species or conspicious rock heaps or dirt angels as "proof", especially if they REALLY THOUGHT they had seen it. I don't for a second discount that these folks believe that they saw bigfoot, and think that bigfoot is real. Granted, I will waver here and mention that more then half this country believes that dinosaurs and all the worlds species were made by the hand of god about 10,000 years ago, frolicked in a garden and snacked on veggies, and all went for a cool boat trip together! Compared to the leap of "faith" required to believe that, belief in bigfoot sure does seem like small beans.

The processes that have weeded out other hoaxes like archeoraptor and piltdown man have done the similar to "bigfoot". Really, all you need to do is show me a body, a skeleton, and let it go through the proper channels of scientific peer review....that is all it will take, and I'll be a "believer" in bigfoot 100%. That is all any legitimate scientist/biologist is asking for...

There are things that have been found in North America that modern science can't describe.

Like ? hairless bloated coons ? Decayed whale slime ? Coyote carcass chupacabras ? They are some of the standard "cryptozoology" "undescribables"

I am 100% with dinotoyforum here....Bigfoot = Hoaxy hoaxtacular. Though, I wish I had as many devoted groupies with faith in him as he does.

[Dinotoyforum]

Aug 12, 2008 21:45:55 GMT richard said:

it depends of your definition of cryptozoology to take it or not seriously... cryptozoology involves not only creatures created from people's imagination... there might be much bigger giant squads in the ocean for example (ok not like the kraken... by bigger I mean 18 meters or something like that)

squads of squid? ;D

[crazycrowman]

Dinotoyforum, I have to laugh, I just read your well written article, and....well, yeah, you said pretty much everything I was trying to say in my response to therizinosaurus, but did so much more fluently. :-)

Thats what I get for making posts and reading links afterwards.

[Dinotoyforum]

the warbler sized wrinkled yellow butted purple beanie-screamer? ;D

Is that close relative of the pink frilled wag-tailed dwarf chiming boobie?

"he's having a go at the birds now!"

[Dinotoyforum]

Aug 12, 2008 22:49:36 GMT crazycrowman said:

Dinotoyforum, I have to laugh, I just read your well written article, and....well, yeah, you said pretty much everything I was trying to say in my response to therizinosaurus, but did so much more fluently. :-)

Thats what I get for making posts and reading links afterwards.

There are a few differences, no purported traces of plesiosaurs as far as I'm aware, but the general principles apply to any cryptid. Photos, video, anecdotes - no good.
I'm glad you posted though, its always better to be specific.

I'm actually have a strong interest in cryptozoology, I've always been fascinated by it. I used to frequent cryptozoology.com but I got frustrated going over the same arguments again and again.

As technology increases over the years, the sightings and evidence should go up if the phenomena are real, they should go down if they are not genuine. Cameras are a good example. Most people have a camera these days, many people even have cameras on their phones, but the relative number of photographs of big cryptids Nessie, Bigfoot etc. are not increasing. Aren't they decreasing? This alone indicates that the phenomena are not genuine, let alone the lack of convincing evidence in the first place.

[crazycrowman]

"Is that close relative of the pink frilled wag-tailed dwarf chiming boobie?"

I think so! Seriously though, as someone who is an avid birder, and does educational outreach, you would be amazed how many "cryptozoology" folks tell me they have seen an Ivory Bill, with their own 2 eyes, and that is all it could have been! And they are in Massachusetts. And they couldn't I'd other native species if you put prime study skins right in front of them. The Ivorybill got alot of media attention, so any large woodpecker, especially the honking big Pileated, MUST be the one they saw on the TV! I even have this one local guy who insists he has seen giant thunderbirds 5 times, and they had 50' wingspans...

I bump into similar situations when we do reptile relocation. People call us out to remove a "8' rattle-cobra-adder"....and its a 3' Northern Water Snake. Same goes with laws and regs for keeping exotic species here in the states. While you are far more likely to be injured by a dog, or a horse, private ownership of snakes and large lizards are getting banned all over the place, because they are talked up like someone just cornered Godzilla and are attributed these absurd, and almost supernatural "abilities".

Unfortunately "Dragon Mythology" is still very much alive.

[Dinotoyforum]

I am 100% with dinotoyforum here....Bigfoot = Hoaxy hoaxtacular. Though, I wish I had as many devoted groupies with faith in him as he does.

- For a second I though you were referring to me - I'm not sure how many devoted groupies have faith in me

People call us out to remove a "8' rattle-cobra-adder"....and its a 3' Northern Water Snake.

- Brilliant example. You don't have to be insane to misidentify something - it's human. Unfortunately, the fallibility of the human mind is one of those things that is difficult to sell without sounding insulting. I have a housemate who believes she has the ability to sense when people she knows have died. She really doesn't like to hear my 'fallibility of human memory' blurb. Maybe it's more fun to believe you have powers that defy the laws of physics, than face the truth that we all naturally overemphasize, misinterpret, and misremember things all the time, especially in line with expectations, and then we believe our own stories. Hence, the fish I caught last Summer was <this> big.

[Dinotoyforum]

This just in!

www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/ga-gorilla-pic/

[crazycrowman]

Wow...I would love that to be the real thing....A photo of a "body" doesn't prove much though, and if this actually is/was legit, then it will be proven to be so. To me it looks like a handfull of guts tossed into a bigfoot suit. Very suspicious that the photo is "un-detailed".

You'd think if it were a real bigfoot that was shot, you would see it propped up and such the way hunters do with the other animals they kill, with extensive photos of the animal. You know, like Hogzilla.

I am betting it is a usual hoax, probably encoraged by peoples love of "crytozoology".

Watch it "dissapear" in the next few weeks, or "be confiscated" or "stolen" or "kept in a "secure location, studied by only by "bigfoot experts" where there is no chance that it would actually be outed as a hoax by real scientists. *shakes head*
www.inquisitr.com/2357/has-bigfoot-been-found/

[crazycrowman]

"Most people have a camera these days, many people even have cameras on their phones, but the relative number of photographs of big cryptids Nessie, Bigfoot etc. are not increasing. Aren't they decreasing? This alone indicates that the phenomena are not genuine, let alone the lack of convincing evidence in the first place."

Very good point. And if we do get photos, they are nearly always blurry questionable globs that "could be nothing else but" a bigfoot/sea monster according to the believers.

"For a second I though you were referring to me - I'm not sure how many devoted groupies have faith in me"

Oh, I think I just figured this out....you are the real bigfoot in disguise, aren't you ?

"Maybe it's more fun to believe you have powers that defy the laws of physics, than face the truth that we all naturally overemphasize, misinterpret, and misremember things all the time, especially in line with expectations, and then we believe our own stories."

Its definitely more fun. Stores are great. And, I don't care if people do enjoy such things, heck, like enjoy a magic show or tarot reading, and such, as long as they can separate the fun and such from reality. I too have always been fascinated by mysterious animals and used to be on some crypto-lists, but the insanity drove me away, as when creatures start "slipping between dimensions" and thats why they are not seen.....yeah, its time to move away from that list.

Nessie though, does exist....and he is in my reptile room....

I thought you and others on here might like to see my "Nessie" - He is a Northern Snake Necked Turtle from Australia....I have had him for about 6 years, and he does educational programs with us. Its fascinating how he hunts for his fish/mice - while he is a speedy swimmer, he generally takes a stance at the bottom of his tank, and that crazy fast neck and head shoot out and upwards and the fish just get sucked in to his maw.


Here is his mate, Ogopogo - Pogo for short.

[tomhet]

That turtle is disturbing

So dinotoydorum is Sasquatch! No wonder he doesn't like publicity! ;D

I don't know what to think of such 'findings'. Most of them do turn out to be fakes As someone else pointed out, 'cryptozoology' is a terrible label for a science. In any case, it would be zoology.

[therizinosaurus]

I'm going to be a little skeptic until the press conference on Friday, but look at the eerie similarity of the pic of the body to this pic:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Myakka_skunk_ape_2.png

Large mouth, small nose, high forehead. And the pictures and the body aren't far from each other

[richard]

to be serious big foot and yeti idea seems ridiculous

[crazycrowman]

"but look at the eerie similarity of the pic of the body to this pic"

"Large mouth, small nose, high forehead."

Just like this bigfoot body! As it says, "The pictures shown here prove Sasquatch is no myth"
www.thehorrordome.com/HDSHOPPINGPROPS/SasquatchLARGE.htm
He is not an ape though, just latex....

You could always try your luck at a tropy "squatch" and go on a bigfoot hunt here though. www.bigfootpreserve.com/home.htm

[therizinosaurus]

Just added a cryptid poll to the thread to see what everyone believes in.
Just for clarification: when I say a valid new species, I mean one not known to science that fits the descriptions.
ex. The Loch Ness Monster- If you believe it is a plesiosaur, check the box. If you feel it is a misidentified oarfish/eel/etc., don't check the box.

Thanks!

[Red Scorpion]

That Bigfoot is real, it looks nothing like that costume, first off, it was MUCH darker, the fur was all mangled, the face was a light brown, and it couldn't even fit into the freezer, its head was to the side because of lack of space.