sfstudios
Full Member
professional Paleosculptor
Posts: 197
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Post by sfstudios on Mar 14, 2011 2:48:19 GMT
If only these resin kits weren't always so bloody expensive.  You would think different if you saw all that goes into creating and producing them! |
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Post by Blade-of-the-Moon on Mar 14, 2011 5:03:37 GMT
If only these resin kits weren't always so bloody expensive. You would think different if you saw all that goes into creating and producing them! Heh heh.. too true. Of course Dinolord's statement is a common lament among us mostly poor but loving Dinosaur Collectors..  |
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Post by darko2300 on Mar 20, 2011 15:19:27 GMT
Rader Studios (John Rader) Apatosaurus:
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Post by Blade-of-the-Moon on Mar 20, 2011 17:42:29 GMT
Theropod says : " Not a lot meat on those bones... "
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Post by Horridus on Mar 20, 2011 17:51:47 GMT
I note the theropod* stuck in there for a sense of scale. Nicely done.
*I had 'primitive bird' here originally. Derp. Bad assumption to make. I'm as susceptible as anyone...
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Post by Libraraptor on Mar 20, 2011 18:09:50 GMT
What a beautiful Apatosaurus! And I love the tiny bird, too!
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Post by Radman on Mar 20, 2011 19:20:57 GMT
Looks like the archie that came with the Tamiya Brach. Fantastic job as always, and a stunning sculpt!
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Post by Jeremy on Mar 20, 2011 22:55:07 GMT
Theropod says : " Not a lot meat on those bones... " That's what I love about this statue. You always see these fellows, plump and in good health. This statue portrays, what I'm sure many Sauropods looked like, when food was scarce. |
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Post by zopteryx on Mar 21, 2011 1:56:33 GMT
I like how its expression even makes it look hungry.
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Post by Blade-of-the-Moon on Mar 21, 2011 3:52:11 GMT
Theropod says : " Not a lot meat on those bones... " That's what I love about this statue. You always see these fellows, plump and in good health. This statue portrays, what I'm sure many Sauropods looked like, when food was scarce. I remember defending Ely Kish's portrayal of similar sauropods here i in the past...hers were lean..especially in the neck. But this guy looks like he's going to drop any minute...would have great if the base had been barren like a dried up lake bed and a couple small scavengers were following along behind....ala Age of Reptiles : TW . |
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Post by hkhollinstone on Mar 21, 2011 16:27:39 GMT
So impressive, love the detail - like the bird and plants.
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Post by Seijun on Mar 21, 2011 17:34:37 GMT
Theropod says : " Not a lot meat on those bones... " That's what I love about this statue. You always see these fellows, plump and in good health. This statue portrays, what I'm sure many Sauropods looked like, when food was scarce. Funnily, I've always felt kind of the opposite. It seems like dinosaurs in general are often represented with too little flesh on their bones. |
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Post by Blade-of-the-Moon on Mar 21, 2011 19:18:50 GMT
There is a difference between fat, good health and poor health. People used to tend to want to make sauropods larger in rounder..but when theropods started slimming down artistically so did their prey. Predators tend to be leaner whereas prey items tend to be a bit heftier..their food is usually easier to get after all. This particular sauropod looks under weight and malnourished ( not a bad thing or wrong though ) but the base shows greenery...so my only conclusion is it's sick. Not something that appeals to everyone I guess...but I do like pieces that make you think.
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Post by raderstudios on Mar 22, 2011 3:19:54 GMT
I thought the I would chime in on this one. This Apatosaurus is intended to represent a lean, but not underweight animal. Many artists have a tendency to represent diplodocid sauropods with excessive fat deposits on them, particularly over the back. In order to round out thecross section of the back, you have have to add HUGE fat deposits on either side of the neural spines (the ridge along the center of the back). Since no modern animal develops significant fat reserves in this region, it is safe to conclude that Apatosaurus didn't either. The only muscles that you would find at the top of the neural spines would be the interspinalis muscles that lie between the spines themselves, thus creating a tall ridge down the back.
The other area that most artists tend to over-do is the neck. Apatosaurus, especially, has extremely large and robust cervical ribs, that almost certainly would be visible profiles through the skin. The majority of the neck musculature would have filled in between them, rather than creating a sheath of muscle over them. This might lend the appearance of an underweight animal, when it is in reality, only an artifact of the unique skeletal structure of this group of animals.
Additionally, virtually no one gets the shape of the neck right. Apatosaurus has an unusually square underside of its vertebrae, and bifurcated (split) neural spines, which likely led to a squarish shape to the neck close to its junction with the body. Closer to the head, the bottom of the neck is just as flat, but the sides taper upward, creating a trapezoidal cross-section. These things are especially true in Apatosaurus excelsus, which is the species that I have restored. If anyone would like further evidence of what I am saying here, please PM me, and I will be happy to provide you with photographs of the Apatosaurus specimen that is mounted at the museum here in Laramie that I have spent literally thousands of hours studying and publishing on.
Cheers,
Jon
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Post by Seijun on Mar 22, 2011 3:31:54 GMT
Bison have extremely tall neural spines, but they don't stick out on the actual animal. Are their spines covered with mostly fat, or muscle?
On most animals, the underlying skeletal structure is not very visible. (in my experience anyway)
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Post by Blade-of-the-Moon on Mar 22, 2011 4:18:40 GMT
I know it's not exactly right, but I tend to compare sauropods to elephants..you don't see hardly any bone showing on a healthy adult elephant that I'm aware of. It's mostly the sharpness of the bones in the shoulders and hips that bug me...I prefer Blanco's restoration here :  You can see some bone areas..but they are softer..like they have muscle or fat over them making it seem more healthy in appearance. |
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Post by Horridus on Mar 22, 2011 18:07:09 GMT
I tend to compare sauropods to elephants... Ack, no, don't do that. Sauropods were very different to elephants. It would be interesting to bring someone like Mike Taylor into this and see what they think. He's also commented on the craziness of A. excelsus' cervical vertebrae before: svpow.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/seriously-apatosaurus-is-just-nuts/ |
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Post by raderstudios on Mar 22, 2011 18:35:04 GMT
"Bison have extremely tall neural spines, but they don't stick out on the actual animal. Are their spines covered with mostly fat, or muscle?"
This is true, but you cannot compare mammalian musculature directly with any other group of vertebrates. During mammalian evolution there was a shift in the primary plane of spinal motion during locomotion. Mammals exhibit dorso-ventral spinal flexion (think of a whale or dolphin swimming), while all other vertebrates retain the ancestral lateral spinal flexion (think lizards running). On of the profound effects that this has on musculature is shifting from an ancestral dominance of the lateral musculature to dominance of the dorsoventral musculature. This is especially pronounced in mammals that do a good deal of running (like bison). Specifically in the case of bison, the anterior thoracic neural spines are elongate to support enlarged cervical musculature that allows male bison to use their heads to battle for mates, and for both sexes to dig through very deep snow to search for forage.
"I know it's exactly right, but I tend to compare sauropods to elephants..you don't see hardly any bone showing on a healthy adult elephant that I'm aware of.
It's mostly the sharpness of the bones in the shoulders and hips that bug me...I prefer Blanco's restoration here"
Unfortunately, the comparison with elephants also will not work, for similar reasons to what I listed above. The are similar, however, in the structure of their limb bones. Sauropods and proboscideans have both independently evolved graviportal limb structures. This is related to their huge body mass, and is why they might appear to be similar animals. That, though, is pretty much where the similarilies end.
Regarding the sharpness of the hips... If you look at the skeleton, you notice that there is a pronounced ridge on the hip bones, considerably above where the muscle scarring is. I interpret this as evidence of the ilium forming a pronounced bony ridge on the side of the body.
The shoulders may be a matter of interpretation, but you have to remember that I have restored this guy in something resembling a full run. Think about other animals that have scapular rotation to elongate their forelimb strides (Artiodactyls (even-toed ungulates) are a good example of this, and cats take this to the extreme); when they are running full-tilt, you can deffinately see the contour of that scapula. Now again, mammals are not the best model, but the scapular rotation is another convergent feature.
I have to agree with you, Blanco's restoration is beautiful, and I would LOVE to have one on my mantle! I just don't think that it accurately reflects the animal. I suppose that it could just be obese, though...
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Post by Horridus on Mar 22, 2011 18:43:25 GMT
Rader: now that's how you reply to artistic criticism...
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Post by raderstudios on Mar 22, 2011 18:54:21 GMT
Rader: now that's how you reply to artistic criticism... Thank you! I like to think that I do pretty well is these regards, as I am actually in a graduate program studying biomechanics, and functional morphology of vertebrates. I'm fact, I'm working on a side project to my thesis that may end up revolutionizing the way dinosaurs are restored. It turns out that no one (including myself) has been doing it right. I can't spill the beans on the idea yet, but it's going to have profound impacts on interpretations of locomotory abilities, as well as the outward appearance of dinosaurs. I'm hoping to get it published in about a year. -Jon |
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