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Post by brachiosaurus on Jan 7, 2012 20:01:23 GMT
Does anyone think sauropods like Brachiosurus could have been smarter than scientists believe? And does anyone think they could have made low frequecy sounds like elephants?
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Post by zopteryx on Jan 8, 2012 0:16:15 GMT
I'm no expert, but both scenarios seem plausible. Although, I wouldn't imagine that they were much smarter then portrayed, maybe a little above crocodile-level intelligence. Low frequency sounds are used by many large animals and it's entirely possible sauropods used them too. I think the Diplodocus from Walking With Dinosaurs used them. Sauropods had air-sacks similar to birds (I think) and those could have been used as resonating chambers to amplify their low frequency calls. Hope this helps!  |
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Post by amanda on Jan 8, 2012 14:45:38 GMT
Don't elephants emit really low frequency sounds to communicate over large distances??
To me, every animal is exactly as smart as it needs to be. So, they were really good at whatever they did..eating and all. Beyond that, higher functions just weren't necessary . But most animals have at least a rudimentary ability to adapt, and learn.
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Post by Griffin on Jan 8, 2012 15:35:40 GMT
I'm no expert, but both scenarios seem plausible. Although, I wouldn't imagine that they were much smarter then portrayed, maybe a little above crocodile-level intelligence. Low frequency sounds are used by many large animals and it's entirely possible sauropods used them too. I think the Diplodocus from Walking With Dinosaurs used them. Sauropods had air-sacks similar to birds (I think) and those could have been used as resonating chambers to amplify their low frequency calls. Hope this helps! Crocodiles are pretty dang intelligent... |
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Post by mmfrankford on Jan 8, 2012 16:59:58 GMT
An octopus brain is not that big, but they seem to be pretty smart creatures. I don't think brain size always correlates to smarts. ( I've met people who are prime examples of that!) ;D
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Post by simon on Jan 8, 2012 17:03:45 GMT
An octopus brain is not that big, but they seem to be pretty smart creatures. I don't think brain size always correlates to smarts. ( I've met people who are prime examples of that!) ;D Homo Neandertalus being the prime example in recent geological history... |
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Post by simon on Jan 8, 2012 17:12:21 GMT
I'm no expert, but both scenarios seem plausible. Although, I wouldn't imagine that they were much smarter then portrayed, maybe a little above crocodile-level intelligence. Low frequency sounds are used by many large animals and it's entirely possible sauropods used them too. I think the Diplodocus from Walking With Dinosaurs used them. Sauropods had air-sacks similar to birds (I think) and those could have been used as resonating chambers to amplify their low frequency calls. Hope this helps! Crocodiles are pretty dang intelligent... Yes, and capable of quite complex behavior like cooperative hunting of fish in a lagoon where they block the exit, then take turns going in to feed ... A personally witnessed example at Florida's Alligator World, 1988: A huge pool of hundreds of Gators with one American Croc as well. They hung dead chickens from a rope to get the critters to go up and jump to get it. The Gators - nothing. The Croc, however, swam over every time a new chicken was hung up, leaped high out of the water and ate it. Regarding Octopi: In 2005 I was snorkeling at a resort island. We stopped and stood out of the water in rocky shallows. My friend told me: "Don't look now, but you're standing on an octopus!" I looked under the water, and, sure enough, a small octopus was hiding under the rock I had stepped on! I moved away, keeping an eye waiting to see if it would come out. When I got about 15 feet away, a pair of eyes - eyes only, with those tall pointy "eyebrows" above the eyes - popped up above the rock. It looked at me, and when I didn't move, the eyes started moving towards the end of the rock - again, only the eyes - which the octopus can 'pop up' above its body - moved. When I moved, the eyes stopped moving. When I stopped moving, they started moving again towards the edge of the rock. I was pretty amazed. Finally, when the eyes got to the edge of the rock, the octopus suddenly came into view as it jet-propelled itself into the deep. A truly intelligent animal! |
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Post by sid on Jan 8, 2012 17:16:58 GMT
The more ethologists study animal behavior, the more it becomes pretty clear that "brain size relative to the body" system to determine intelligence is just a myth (just like the mirror test regarding self-consciousness) ... As Amanda said, every creature has what it needs to survive so, yeah, i believe that sauropods (and every other prehistoric animal, from trilobites to mammoths) were pretty smart for what they needed to do.
But what about their culture (yeah, i use the term "culture" when i talk about non-human animals, so what?)? The fossilized tracks tell us that some species travelled in herds (youngsters and older animals or, in some case, only the former), and those nests found in South America hint that, at least for whoever made those nests, they hanged around when it came the time to lay eggs)... But how they talked to eachother? How they defended themselves from the predators? They mourned their dead like elephants (or, strictly speaking about dinosaurs, magpies)?
Who friggin' knows, but i'm sure they were way more complex than we always imagined.
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Post by Griffin on Jan 8, 2012 23:38:46 GMT
Even between crocodiles and alligators there is a noticeable difference in smarts. At work our alligator is easy to top jaw rope and move if we have to (for the most part he is very docile at this point and we mostly just go in there and carefully grab him and he puts up no fight) but our Nile Croc is much more cunning. After being top jaw roped a few times you can't fool her the same way again. Its def a challenge and an adventure when we have to move her.
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Post by brachiosaurus on Jan 9, 2012 14:44:26 GMT
In clash of the dinosaurs they said sauroposidon was so dumb it didn't know how to defend itself when young, said they had no predators when adults.
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Post by Griffin on Jan 9, 2012 16:42:03 GMT
Clash of the dinosaurs is all sorts of wrong. They took the paleontologists they interviewed out of context.
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Post by DinoLord on Jan 9, 2012 17:23:24 GMT
Not to mention how they overly repeated scenes to the point of irritability.
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Post by brachiosaurus on Jan 9, 2012 18:38:12 GMT
Not to mention how they overly repeated scenes to the point of irritability. I hate that, also their sauroposidon babies are just small adults |
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Post by Horridus on Jan 9, 2012 20:56:11 GMT
I think it's safe to assume that sauropods weren't 'smart' from an anthropocentric point of view. What evidence there is indicates against nest protection and the raising of young, although given the vast time span during which they existed, it's impossible to know for certain what absolutely all of them were up to.
Regarding vocalisation abilities, the sorts of sounds they could have produced would have depended on where the relevant organs were located in their neck - which nobody knows.
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Post by Pachyrhinosaurus on Jan 9, 2012 22:02:52 GMT
In the princeton Field Guide to dinosaurs, it says that sauropods used their long tracheas for low-frequency ones, like elephants.
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Post by Griffin on Jan 10, 2012 1:49:53 GMT
In the princeton Field Guide to dinosaurs, it says that sauropods used their long tracheas for low-frequency ones, like elephants. Which is pure speculation I'm pretty sure. |
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Post by Horridus on Jan 10, 2012 19:42:48 GMT
In the princeton Field Guide to dinosaurs, it says that sauropods used their long tracheas for low-frequency ones, like elephants. Which is pure speculation I'm pretty sure. Has to be. |
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