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Post by arioch on Jan 5, 2009 2:47:13 GMT
Tyrannosaurids evolved from coelurosaurs, and kept the speedy leg configuration up to tyrannosauridae and intact in the young stages. The adults are far more adapted for speed that any other giant theropod, but the juveniles had the advantadge of being relatively light for their size. And yes, the old Nanotyrannus are in fact young T. rexes. www.niu.edu/PubAffairs/photos/opt/releases/jane-skeleton.jpg
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Post by ningishzida on Jan 5, 2009 12:23:15 GMT
... And, to go along with stoneage's post, trex couldn't outrun humans. What would be the point of chasing after skinny little bags of bones that could probably outrun you? Of course they could. Younger ones could under any circumstance, and adults could in rough terrain. Those statistics are based on a smooth track. But in a real life situation, there are big rocks, fallen logs, thick brush, etc that would slow humans, but would not bother a T-Rex. And as I have shown, LARGE reptiles, birds and mammals today, actively hunt and consume very small, as well as very large prey.
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Post by ningishzida on Jan 5, 2009 12:37:36 GMT
That sounds like stuff you'd find in a comic book or cartoon, but highly unlikely in a real life scenario. Early humans killed mammoths because they were unrmored herbivores. You don't seem to understand that the Rex would be the hunter, with superior sight, smell and hearing, and probably active hunters of humans if they had existed. You would not be able to dig comic book traps when you are sniffed out or spotted, and eaten moments after creeping out of a cave.. ;D Comic books, you talk about Dragons like they really exist and then you talk about comic books. Yes hunters probably would have hunted herbivores first but a T-Rex is not as smart as an elephant. Elephants can smell water etc. miles away. They also have excellent hearing and can hear low frequencys that humans can't. T-Rex was a big game hunter it wouldn't be overly interested in trying to catch small humans. Remember a T-Rex can bite off 500 lbs of meat in a single mouthful. A small human probably weighing no more then 150 pounds wouldn't be worth the energy expenditure. Have you ever tried to catch a wild small mammal by hand like a mouse. Good Luck! and remember a T-Rex doesn't have useful arms and hands. Remember T-Rex hunted large slow moving herbivores, not quick, agile and highly intelligent humans! Get real! Dragons are a fantasy just like your thoughts on T-Rex! ;D Please have the courtesy to read the previous posts in the thread before saying pointless things. I have already shown that carnivores today, that eat extremely large prey (wolves, komodos, crocs, eagles, etc) ALSO do not hesitate to hunt and consume tiny creatures as well. There is no reason to believe carnivorous dinosaurs would be any different than modern archosaurian predators. And also do not presume you know what "I believe". The dragon book draws from the eyewitness accounts of scientists, famous personalities throughout history, mass sightings of hundreds of people, and the doctrine/beliefs of all of the worlds's great religions, (of which many scientists are members), and then interpreting the data to form a plausible explanation. It has nothing to do with what I may or may not believe, which I have never stated here. And we have already seen that some members of this forum are not emotionally mature enough to discuss this subject like adults, so you should not bring it up.
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Post by [][][]cordylus[][][] on Jan 6, 2009 1:28:07 GMT
... And, to go along with stoneage's post, trex couldn't outrun humans. What would be the point of chasing after skinny little bags of bones that could probably outrun you? Of course they could. Younger ones could under any circumstance, and adults could in rough terrain. Those statistics are based on a smooth track. But in a real life situation, there are big rocks, fallen logs, thick brush, etc that would slow humans, but would not bother a T-Rex. And as I have shown, LARGE reptiles, birds and mammals today, actively hunt and consume very small, as well as very large prey. Sorry, I meant they wouldn't, not they couldn't. And those animals that eat small animals are ADAPTED to eat small animals, where trex was adapted to eat large duckbills/ceratopsians.
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Post by ningishzida on Jan 6, 2009 20:31:05 GMT
Of course they could. Younger ones could under any circumstance, and adults could in rough terrain. Those statistics are based on a smooth track. But in a real life situation, there are big rocks, fallen logs, thick brush, etc that would slow humans, but would not bother a T-Rex. And as I have shown, LARGE reptiles, birds and mammals today, actively hunt and consume very small, as well as very large prey. Sorry, I meant they wouldn't, not they couldn't. And those animals that eat small animals are ADAPTED to eat small animals, where trex was adapted to eat large duckbills/ceratopsians. You have absolutely no scientific basis to state adult T-Rexes would not eat small animals. This totally contradicts the evidence of reptiles, mammals and birds. Why would dinosaurs be any different.. Even something as huge as an orca have been observed eating sea gulls. My large alligator and monitors do not hesitate to catchy mice even though they could swallow a rabbit. Any time a predator tackles a large herbivore, it is essentially risking its life if it becomes injured. I am sure theropods ate small game when it became available like EVERY other predator in the world.
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Post by Tyrannax on Jan 6, 2009 21:04:04 GMT
Humans aren't as small in comparison to Tyrannosaurus to the point where T-Rex would ignore us. We are easy to catch, and are usually a good 200 lbs. Thats a good, easy snack. Why would it ignore us?
And there is a difference between being stabbed with a bacteria filled, dirty claw then being stabbed with a little steak knife.
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Post by [][][]cordylus[][][] on Jan 6, 2009 21:32:57 GMT
OK then.
Humans wouldn't be as fat and plump as they are now, as they would constantly be running, searching for food, etc. Maybe 150 pounds, but there wouldn't be any big 300 pounders.
And I am not saying they wouldn't eat small animals---- I am asking why would they eat small animals? I think they would use too much energy chasing down a small mammal, and the benefit would be outweighed by the risk.
Trex wouldn't ignore us, but why would he bother with us?
OK, here is an example of what I am trying to say: Why would you chase a hershey bar down the street when you have a big holiday ham in your house?
This is my last post in this thread, as it is obvious that nobody is eager to change their views.
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Post by arioch on Jan 6, 2009 22:16:48 GMT
OK, here is an example of what I am trying to say: Why would you chase a hershey bar down the street when you have a big holiday ham in your house? This is my last post in this thread, as it is obvious that nobody is eager to change their views. The holiday harm couldnt be injured and hurt you while you try to eat it, as ningishzida said. And does´nt try to run, even if it is slower than the hershey bar. Stay the thread and take your punishment.
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Post by [][][]cordylus[][][] on Jan 6, 2009 22:25:52 GMT
My punishment? WHy? Because I don't believe in many of ning's theories? Because I don't believe in dragons and lippy dinosaurs and scutey-mosasaurs and super powered trexes that are craving human blood? You obviously don't' understand my example. Pretend you are a trex. Pretend the hershey bar is a human. Pretend the ham is a big fat duckbill. Understand?
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Post by Tyrannax on Jan 6, 2009 22:54:43 GMT
If I'm not mistaken we have evidence that large theropods ate small, fast animals like Dromeosaurs. (Not Tyrannosaurus...I believe it was a large animal from south america). Point is, it wouldn't take too much energy to catch a human. Tyrannosaurus was fast, and if you were close enough to peak its interests, hey why not? We are certainly large enough to catch its attention. Plus, maybe it had to feed its young? Maybe it is territorial? Maybe its a young Tyrannosaurus which finds small targets a great meal. Tyrannosaurus would, in my opinion, in no way hesitate to quickly kill a human. And due to the amount of meat primitive humans ate, it wouldn't surprise em there would be no one that weighed around 300 lbs. They were very much heavy set people. A Hershey bar? In comparison to our size to T-Rex's, we are larger then a Hershey bar. That's saying something. No one is going to change my view because I don't believe in the other view. Your saying I have to change my view? Why can't you change yours? I think some people are disagreeing with Jurassic Park to the point where they don't think dinosaurs would eat us. Come on, lions eat us, crocodiles eat us, massive killer whales even find us fancy (Wait, I thought we were too small for orca-sized animals to waste there energy on?) ;D Food is food, and Tyrannosaurus wasn't lazy. It'd probably enjoy chasing you.
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Post by stoneage on Jan 6, 2009 22:55:23 GMT
;D Comic books, you talk about Dragons like they really exist and then you talk about comic books. Yes hunters probably would have hunted herbivores first but a T-Rex is not as smart as an elephant. Elephants can smell water etc. miles away. They also have excellent hearing and can hear low frequencys that humans can't. T-Rex was a big game hunter it wouldn't be overly interested in trying to catch small humans. Remember a T-Rex can bite off 500 lbs of meat in a single mouthful. A small human probably weighing no more then 150 pounds wouldn't be worth the energy expenditure. Have you ever tried to catch a wild small mammal by hand like a mouse. Good Luck! and remember a T-Rex doesn't have useful arms and hands. Remember T-Rex hunted large slow moving herbivores, not quick, agile and highly intelligent humans! Get real! Dragons are a fantasy just like your thoughts on T-Rex! ;D Please have the courtesy to read the previous posts in the thread before saying pointless things. I have already shown that carnivores today, that eat extremely large prey (wolves, komodos, crocs, eagles, etc) ALSO do not hesitate to hunt and consume tiny creatures as well. There is no reason to believe carnivorous dinosaurs would be any different than modern archosaurian predators. And also do not presume you know what "I believe". The dragon book draws from the eyewitness accounts of scientists, famous personalities throughout history, mass sightings of hundreds of people, and the doctrine/beliefs of all of the worlds's great religions, (of which many scientists are members), and then interpreting the data to form a plausible explanation. It has nothing to do with what I may or may not believe, which I have never stated here. And we have already seen that some members of this forum are not emotionally mature enough to discuss this subject like adults, so you should not bring it up. ;D Where is this Dragon book? Where can I get it? Who are these scientist and famous personalitys you talk of? What is your plausable explantation? It sound to me like a lot of Cryptozoology Mumbo Jumbo! If your not emotionally mature enough to discuss the subject then don't. All I want to know is what are the facts and where is the evidence that shows conclusively that Dragons exist. As far as I can see your the only one seeing them! ;D
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Post by Tyrannax on Jan 6, 2009 22:57:43 GMT
Can we keep the dragon discussion out of this?? ;D Out don't want this thread to end up locked!
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Post by sbell on Jan 6, 2009 23:06:51 GMT
Can we keep the dragon discussion out of this?? ;D Out don't want this thread to end up locked! There, tyrannax said it for me. I think that this thread has gone on almost long enough--and with no end in sight (gee, hard to imagine why). If this devolves into more dragon name-calling, or responding to that name calling, or whatever, this thread will end in ignominy like so many (recently) before.
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Post by arioch on Jan 6, 2009 23:30:34 GMT
You obviously don't' understand my example. Pretend you are a trex. Pretend the hershey bar is a human. Pretend the ham is a big fat duckbill. Understand? Yep. What you don´t understand is that duckbill could be more dangerous than a human. Its wrong guess that big hervibores without spikes or horns are totally undefended against big theropods. One kick, one blow of the tail...and the carnivore could be seriously hurted, or being pushed and fall to the ground, what is mortal for them. Small prey don´t present this problems, and Tyranosauridae were more prepared to run that the previous big theropods for something. ;D By the way, i don´t understand what have dragons to do with this thread...
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Post by [][][]cordylus[][][] on Jan 6, 2009 23:47:00 GMT
Yep, I am wrong.
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Post by tetonbabydoll on Jan 7, 2009 0:28:30 GMT
It is not the subject, or lack of progress that gets the threads locked. It is the lack of basic common courtesy between us that is doing that. We are insulting, nitpicking and baiting each other. Name calling and personal attacks. And, there has been an overall tone of just plain rudeness in these last few posts.
I actually have members PMing me asking what is going on. One actually just wrote me, to say she thought I had been poorly treated, and to apologize on YOUR behalf Arioch. This should show us that our squabbling is having far reaching consequences. We need to step back, and try to be respectful of each other.
Stoneage, you always have my respect, but if we want Ning to stop fighting with us, then maybe we should stop mocking and insulting him? ( At least in the open forum, PM's are private for a reason, after all).
Ning, I do not understand, if you find our company and ideas so totally intolerable, then why are you here? Please, can't we just stat over? We all have strong views here, and often do not agree, but we manage to hang out and have fun. That is the point after all, isn't it?
Arioch, your way of expressing yourself tends to come across as superior and intolerant. And, you are quick to insult and dismiss those who dare disagree with you. Why? If we have to lock every thread we are all involved with, what will be left? I think we can all be better than that, but we need to stop baiting each other. C'mon, please?
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Post by ningishzida on Jan 7, 2009 1:00:19 GMT
It is not the subject, or lack of progress that gets the threads locked. It is the lack of basic common courtesy between us that is doing that. We are insulting, nitpicking and baiting each other. Name calling and personal attacks. And, there has been an overall tone of just plain rudeness in these last few posts. I actually have members PMing me asking what is going on. One actually just wrote me, to say she thought I had been poorly treated, and to apologize on YOUR behalf Arioch. This should show us that our squabbling is having far reaching consequences. We need to step back, and try to be respectful of each other. Stoneage, you always have my respect, but if we want Ning to stop fighting with us, then maybe we should stop mocking and insulting him? ( At least in the open forum, PM's are private for a reason, after all). Ning, I do not understand, if you find our company and ideas so totally intolerable, then why are you here? Please, can't we just stat over? We all have strong views here, and often do not agree, but we manage to hang out and have fun. That is the point after all, isn't it? Arioch, your way of expressing yourself tends to come across as superior and intolerant. And, you are quick to insult and dismiss those who dare disagree with you. Why? If we have to lock every thread we are all involved with, what will be left? I think we can all be better than that, but we need to stop baiting each other. C'mon, please? What do you mean "our" as if everyone is as rude and foul mouthed as you and agree with your "need" to attack anything I post here? There are decent people here in which it is possible to carry on an intelligent conversation. But you seem to be the only one using the "F'" word and only a couple of obvious adolescents who have imitated you with the name calling.. I am perfectly able to get along with most people here, and have provided several interesting topics for discussion. I can behave like an adult on these forums. I do realize the subject of dinosaurs does attract youngsters, though some are far more mature than some of the adults here.
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Post by ningishzida on Jan 7, 2009 1:07:26 GMT
Please have the courtesy to read the previous posts in the thread before saying pointless things. I have already shown that carnivores today, that eat extremely large prey (wolves, komodos, crocs, eagles, etc) ALSO do not hesitate to hunt and consume tiny creatures as well. There is no reason to believe carnivorous dinosaurs would be any different than modern archosaurian predators. And also do not presume you know what "I believe". The dragon book draws from the eyewitness accounts of scientists, famous personalities throughout history, mass sightings of hundreds of people, and the doctrine/beliefs of all of the worlds's great religions, (of which many scientists are members), and then interpreting the data to form a plausible explanation. It has nothing to do with what I may or may not believe, which I have never stated here. And we have already seen that some members of this forum are not emotionally mature enough to discuss this subject like adults, so you should not bring it up. ;D Where is this Dragon book? Where can I get it? Who are these scientist and famous personalitys you talk of? What is your plausable explantation? It sound to me like a lot of Cryptozoology Mumbo Jumbo! If your not emotionally mature enough to discuss the subject then don't. All I want to know is what are the facts and where is the evidence that shows conclusively that Dragons exist. As far as I can see your the only one seeing them! ;D Though there are many similarities with between dragons and dinosaurs, and many people thought this subject quite interesting and appropriate to these forum, we have already seen that a few people here are unable to discuss this subject in a mature manner. In fact, some are so immature, that they cannot even ignore threads they have an aversion to. So I am afraid we are not allowed to discuss this subject., despite the wealth of dragon toys, and the many people on these forums who admit to collecting them.
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Post by ningishzida on Jan 7, 2009 1:11:00 GMT
;D Where is this Dragon book? Where can I get it? Who are these scientist and famous personalitys you talk of? What is your plausable explantation? It sound to me like a lot of Cryptozoology Mumbo Jumbo! If your not emotionally mature enough to discuss the subject then don't. All I want to know is what are the facts and where is the evidence that shows conclusively that Dragons exist. As far as I can see your the only one seeing them! ;D Though there are many similarities with between dragons and dinosaurs, and many people thought this subject quite interesting and appropriate to these forum, we have already seen that a few people here are unable to discuss this subject in a mature manner. In fact, some are so immature, that they cannot even ignore threads they have an aversion to. So I am afraid we are not allowed to discuss this subject., despite the wealth of dragon toys, and the many people on these forums who admit to collecting them. Now why those couple people have the power to dictate policy here remains a mystery, but maybe the alternative would be being called filthy names by a person who want to always have his way.
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Post by arioch on Jan 7, 2009 1:42:12 GMT
It is not the subject, or lack of progress that gets the threads locked. It is the lack of basic common courtesy between us that is doing that. We are insulting, nitpicking and baiting each other. Name calling and personal attacks. And, there has been an overall tone of just plain rudeness in these last few posts. I actually have members PMing me asking what is going on. One actually just wrote me, to say she thought I had been poorly treated, and to apologize on YOUR behalf Arioch. This should show us that our squabbling is having far reaching consequences. We need to step back, and try to be respectful of each other. Stoneage, you always have my respect, but if we want Ning to stop fighting with us, then maybe we should stop mocking and insulting him? ( At least in the open forum, PM's are private for a reason, after all). Ning, I do not understand, if you find our company and ideas so totally intolerable, then why are you here? Please, can't we just stat over? We all have strong views here, and often do not agree, but we manage to hang out and have fun. That is the point after all, isn't it? Arioch, your way of expressing yourself tends to come across as superior and intolerant. And, you are quick to insult and dismiss those who dare disagree with you. Why? If we have to lock every thread we are all involved with, what will be left? I think we can all be better than that, but we need to stop baiting each other. C'mon, please? Excuse me, where i insulted someone in this thread? Im beginning to feel atacked for too sensitive people. If this is for what i said to Cordylus about the punishment, it was a friendly joke, or maybe i should used more smilies? Im trying to be polite, but i tend to express my opinions with seriousness. Its not my fault if you or somebody feel hurted; when you state something in a serious discusion you must take some responsability about you said and don´t complain when someone accuses you of don´t put enough efforts thinking in your statements. You see, its frustrating for people who think that you leaved something out in your statement and expected a deeper answer to his efforts. It happens to everybody, and when happens to me i just take my blame. I´m geting tired of feeling guilty for all. Anyway, if you think im being too rude, ill will try to change that. Any problem. But dont expect i´ll become Ned Flanders.
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