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Post by dinonikes on Mar 15, 2009 1:12:19 GMT
Here is the drawing by Gregory Paul that inspired this pose- you have to understand that so far this is a very rough sculpt- i just sat down and slapped together the clay very quickly and posted it as it was sort of interesting to me at the time, haven't refined the pose yet- there is still some playing around to do with the leg/head position- i basically took a side view of an Allosaurus skeleton and blew it up to scale, then cut it out of cardboard and assembled it then positioned it and covered it with clay very roughly- it is actually easier to make it work in a drawing- the real three dimensional piece is harder to pose naturally, but i feel i can do it-  |
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Post by Blade-of-the-Moon on Mar 15, 2009 1:12:40 GMT
Stoneage - I am not sure how Allosaurus would have had to scratch. Its something that will probably have to be based of conjecture no matter what. I am not sure about the one legged scratch, but its possible. The duck in that photo is nearly on its side. Thats not typical for many bird species, but it really depends on the bird. Plus, allosaurs, though related to birds, are not laid out just like a bird, so it was something all its own. (This goes for any theropod with a large bulky muscular tail, as no modern birds have them to compare/contrast) We can look towards crocs/birds to make guesses as to how it would have to do things like scratch. That is why I posted and suggested images of birds and crocodilians, due to them being the only 2 living groups of archosaurs we can glean behavior from. Crocs scratch sort of like a dog does, and sort of like how that allosaurus is scratching. They usually do so with bodies with belly facing the ground, but not always. Lizards scratch the same way as crocodilians for the most part. I forgot another way to relieve itching that was talked about in the past...cleaner animals... mostly we have birds today that pick parasites off of larger animals..rhinos and crocodilians I believe participate in this if I remember correctly... I've never really seen a large croc or gator scratch themselves..just the smaller hatchlings and maybe juveniles who seem more wiry and active than the adults. Checked my book again and looked at the pic...it doesn't really say wether it's possible...just notes the illustration was intended to show the design of the hips and pubic area. |
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Post by Blade-of-the-Moon on Mar 15, 2009 1:56:08 GMT
Here is the drawing by Gregory Paul that inspired this pose- you have to understand that so far this is a very rough sculpt- i just sat down and slapped together the clay very quickly and posted it as it was sort of interesting to me at the time, haven't refined the pose yet- there is still some playing around to do with the leg/head position- i basically took a side view of an Allosaurus skeleton and blew it up to scale, then cut it out of cardboard and assembled it then positioned it and covered it with clay very roughly- it is actually easier to make it work in a drawing- the real three dimensional piece is harder to pose naturally, but i feel i can do it- I was looking everywhere for that pic online..heh.. I know it's rough..I htink it maybe possible to do...just wanted to give you some thoughts when to start thiking about it..  |
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Post by dinonikes on Mar 15, 2009 2:02:21 GMT
I understand blade- appreciate it- i appreciate everyone kicking in their two cents-
Yeah my scanner isn't working right now so i couldn't post the one out of my copy of PDotW-too bad as that shows more along the right side of the drawing back further along the body than this image of the drawing I found on like page 26 or so of google image search of 'Allosaurus'
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Post by Blade-of-the-Moon on Mar 15, 2009 4:42:20 GMT
Heh..I was looking through Gregory Paul Allosaurus and Itching Allosaurus...sometimes you just get lucky... Check out those spelling errors..I really can't type worth a dime.. lol I haven't had a scanner for awhile...mine died last year and it was a cheap one..never worked well so I just never got another...maybe I could have tried taking a pic of it and posting that.. ? prob wouldn't have worked too well either...cheap camera.. ;D It's going to be a devil to get that leg and laying skin and all just right..but I'm sure you can do it. |
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Post by Libraraptor on Mar 17, 2009 19:27:54 GMT
Well, dinosaurs were creatures of flesh and blood, weren´t they? And they certainly had something like unspectacular everyday life. Sleeping, sh***ing, things like that, and of course: Scratching. I love the thought of a mighty Allosaurus or even T.Rex suffering from parasites under their scales or mosquito stings. It´s the little things. I love dinosaurs being sculpted this way. I see the predators in their mighty "where´s the next thing I can eat" - posture much too often. By the way, there is a picture of Mark Hallet showing Mongolian wildlife in the late Cretaceaous. He even gets one step further and shows a theropod laying on the side, obviously resting lion - like, tongue out and hackling  (something like that ) If you need more input on your Allo, I recommend you look at this picture. |
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Post by Blade-of-the-Moon on Mar 17, 2009 20:08:23 GMT
That was part of the charm of the Rex in King Kong... that little touch of him scratching his lower jaw has referenced so many times...it's an icon...heh
Any idea what therapod it was ? Or where the pic can be found ? Mark has a lot of great art..but not much featured on his site...shame he doesn't have one huge artbook... :/
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Post by bjeast on Mar 19, 2009 2:08:17 GMT
Well, as relative noob, who really likes Allosaurus, I appreciate the effort and the attempt to do something a little different. Not sure if I like it, though - but if it's plausible, I suppose I might buy one....
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Post by Libraraptor on Mar 19, 2009 18:50:21 GMT
That was part of the charm of the Rex in King Kong... that little touch of him scratching his lower jaw has referenced so many times...it's an icon...heh Any idea what therapod it was ? Or where the pic can be found ? Mark has a lot of great art..but not much featured on his site...shame he doesn't have one huge artbook... :/ It was a Tarbosaurus. Actually, it even was a couple. The picture, if I remember it correctly, can be found in "Dinosaurs - A Global View" by Stephen Czerkas and his wife. |
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Post by tomhet on Mar 19, 2009 19:00:59 GMT
Well, as relative noob, who really likes Allosaurus, I appreciate the effort and the attempt to do something a little different. Not sure if I like it, though - but if it's plausible, I suppose I might buy one.... It does sound far-fetched  |
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Post by Blade-of-the-Moon on Mar 19, 2009 19:42:15 GMT
I actually think it's possible... but it's one of those things that the animal normally wouldn't do in exactly that position...kind of like how some people can raise their feet/legs so far forward...they can...but they usually don't...it's atypical behavior .
Especially, when you could have your mate or other pack member groom you....it's also easier to rub against a tree or rock..even just soak i nthe water or roll in the mud to remove parasites.... the final nail I have..is that the position just doesn't look comfortable...almost like his face and upper body is calm while the rest of him is straining to stretch his foot to that point.
If some minor modifications are made I think it could work though.
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Post by tetonbabydoll on Mar 19, 2009 20:37:18 GMT
not for nothing, but I just re-watched When Dinosaurs Roamed America last night, and one of those little Dryosaurs that followed the camerasaurus around stopped and scratched its jaw with its hind foot while standing on the other one.Made me think of this piece. They also showed their ceratosaurus in the rain, lying down. Was kinda cool. For the record, Susan and I BOTH love this one as it is.
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Post by crazycrowman on Mar 19, 2009 21:45:13 GMT
I have to hop on and say, how many of you folks who are not into this figures posture because you feel it is not plausible have watched live animals for any length of time, and paid attention to their behaviors ? If you just don't like it, I understand...but It really seems not only a plausible position, but even a likely one at some point in the animals life. I have seen some animals get in some wicked strange positions, to scratch an itch, or sometimes just while resting. We had a Grey Fox at the rehab who used to climb up and wedge himself between 2 tree branches and lay/dangle there, looking for all the world like he was firmly stuck and dead. He was fine, and when someone who knew/a feeder walked by he would spring to life and dash back down his tree. Apparently, he just liked to sit that way. Chainsaw, one of the parrots likes to hang from the top of her cage or a perch by her feet and stick her head between her legs. She looks like a butt and tail feathers and a face. And she sleeps this way! Just look at the duck image that was posted. www.willepadnos.net/jmkasunich/wood-duck-scratching-1118m.jpgOr that duck. Or the Egyptian goose below... farm4.static.flickr.com/3165/2446160102_2091a70a15.jpg?v=0More poses of birds scratching... www.naturefocused.com/archives/bluff-top-birds/IMG_2_7793tn.jpgwww.dccommtech.net/Pets/Charlie-The-Cockatiel/My-Cockatiel-Charlie-Scratching-Neck-Upside-Down.jpgwww.grahamowengallery.com/photography/birds/pelican-scratching.jpgwww.flickr.com/photos/ericbegin/377150253/(That starling looks similar) And this one is using a tool! one of her feather to scratch with! www.skye4birds.com/whalen/sascritch.jpgI like the pose, and hope it, or a slightly modified form of it get produced. I'd be buying! |
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Post by timlee3005 on Mar 19, 2009 21:55:35 GMT
Time for my two cents worth...
I'll have to say that the pose IS realistic and plausible.
I can't wait to see the finished prototype.
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Post by [][][]cordylus[][][] on Mar 19, 2009 23:09:51 GMT
I have no problem with it, I just think it's hips would have broken or something if it bent that way. Comparing birds to an allosaurus also seems a little far-off.... |
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Post by crazycrowman on Mar 19, 2009 23:55:17 GMT
"Comparing birds to an allosaurus also seems a little far-off"
Uh huh...You want to start the whole "feather" war again. I get it. And that signifies that it is time for me to go back to lurking, or avoiding this list, and not posting. Keep up the good work dinonikes.
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Post by Blade-of-the-Moon on Mar 20, 2009 0:42:09 GMT
Yeah we went through that before... :/
Allos are large therapods so it's hard to compare them in your head to smaller modern day birds...and yes they did have some differences..but lacking a real Allosaurus we have to look at what we have that is related for examples...in this case it's avians.
Maybe a short necked Ostrich or Emu would fit better....lol..but do the long necked varietys of those birds reach their legs to their necks to scratch ? I don't recall seeing any myself before..but that doesn't mean anything.
I do think the pose is possible it's just seems it's a little over-extended and stretched a bit too far into an uncomfortable position to achieve it. Hand claws are prob too sharp for scratching with...so feet are a bit more logical.. but I think an upright sitting position would be better for that...then the leg doesn't have toreach so far forward...same for standing on one leg with the head lowered and taking a quick scratch like that.
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Post by stoneage on Mar 21, 2009 2:11:57 GMT
 "Comparing birds to an allosaurus also seems a little far-off" Uh huh...You want to start the whole "feather" war again. I get it. And that signifies that it is time for me to go back to lurking, or avoiding this list, and not posting. Keep up the good work dinonikes. Please don't get offended CCM. I prefer that you comment because often, you have information which I think is pertinent. I think Allosaurus is bigger then any bird you can picture. I'm not sure if at Allosaurus's weight, it could balance on one foot. I personally doubt it. None of your pictures are in the position of this figure. I can't say it is impossible though. I guess I will have to wait and see how it turns out. I might buy it just because of how controversial it will be. 
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Post by [][][]cordylus[][][] on Mar 21, 2009 2:39:47 GMT
"Comparing birds to an allosaurus also seems a little far-off" Uh huh...You want to start the whole "feather" war again. I get it. And that signifies that it is time for me to go back to lurking, or avoiding this list, and not posting. Keep up the good work dinonikes. Please don't get offended CCM. I prefer that you comment because often, you have information which I think is pertinent. I think Allosaurus is bigger then any bird you can picture. I'm not sure if at Allosaurus's weight, it could balance on one foot. I personally doubt it. None of your pictures are in the position of this figure. I can't say it is impossible though. I guess I will have to wait and see how it turns out. I might buy it just because of how controversial it will be. I agree. And CCM, I wasn't trying to start the feather thing. |
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Post by tetonbabydoll on Mar 21, 2009 7:01:53 GMT
The pose is fine. There is nothing wrong or controversial about it. I have seen more than one piece of art like it, including at least one sculpture, somewhere. It is not radical it is fine. Good. Good and fine.
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(something like that 
![[][][]cordylus[][][] Avatar](http://files.sharenator.com/Troll_Face_U_MAD_RE_wrestling_1-s407x405-126802.jpg)
