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Post by stoneage on Oct 3, 2008 21:49:32 GMT
;D A new study conducted by Katsufumi Sato has determined that Pterosaurs couldn't fly. According to him pterosaurs over 88 pounds would absolutely be unable to fly. ;D
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Post by Tyrannax on Oct 3, 2008 22:01:27 GMT
;D A new study conducted by Katsufumi Sato has determined that Pterosaurs couldn't fly. According to him pterosaurs over 88 pounds would absolutely be unable to fly. ;D Yeah, right. rofl If they couldn't fly they would be like dinosaurs swimming in the middle of the ocean, unable to do anything. Of course they couldn't actually push themselves off the ground...they used strong winds to create lift....
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Post by sid on Oct 3, 2008 22:20:25 GMT
What the... I hope that scientist was kidding when he said that absurdity ;D
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Post by richard on Oct 3, 2008 23:31:48 GMT
where is he from? I'm sure it was sort of april fools
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Post by bolesey on Oct 4, 2008 0:42:05 GMT
Given that there are flightless birds, the notion of secondarily flightless pterosaurs is not unreasonable. Though I have to admit, I'm getting a little tired of the recent trend for paleontologists to conduct biomechanical studies only to come up with what the animal couldn't do. It's like the opposite of 70s 'dinosaur renaissance'. I'm sure it's all good science, but it can be depressing to find how stiff and unflexible many prehistoric animals supposedly were. Seems like they keep coming up with increasingly restrictive ranges of motion for each limb, tail, neck etc. Well that's just my impression. Given current interpretaions of Azhdarchids, it wouldn't surprise me if they had great difficulty becoming airborne, and their capability of flight comes into question. Well, it's hard to imagine a flying giraffe. What does surprise me is that with everything else going on in the late Cretaceous, that there was room in the ecosystem for another large, largely terrestrial carnivore/omnivore.
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Post by kustom65 on Oct 4, 2008 1:24:40 GMT
Maybe pterosaur wings were for sexual display only.... I'm sure they were good swimmers, tho'.
(Yes, I jest, albeit feebly.)
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Post by stoneage on Oct 4, 2008 3:02:28 GMT
where is he from? I'm sure it was sort of april fools ;D He's from the University Of Tokyo, Japan. ;D
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Post by Tyrannax on Oct 4, 2008 4:09:28 GMT
where is he from? I'm sure it was sort of april fools ;D He's from the University Of Tokyo, Japan. ;D He must have some kind of mental problem because pterosaurs could fly....I mean...c'mon is he that in need of public attention to lie about the anatomy of an animal?
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Post by baryonyx on Oct 4, 2008 8:54:12 GMT
;D He's from the University Of Tokyo, Japan. ;D He must have some kind of mental problem because pterosaurs could fly....I mean...c'mon is he that in need of public attention to lie about the anatomy of an animal? Exactly what I was thinking!
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Post by sid on Oct 4, 2008 12:46:02 GMT
He must have some kind of mental problem because pterosaurs could fly....I mean...c'mon is he that in need of public attention to lie about the anatomy of an animal? Exactly what I was thinking! Totally agree ;D And speakin' about biomechanical tests and studies...Well,in my opinion the majority of them are just bullnuts,with no REAL use for understanding how these animals really moved I mean...How can i believe,for example,that a big "lizard" like an Allosaurus (or some other theropod like that) had a stiff tail,couldn't rotate his wrist or some other nuts like that? Bah!
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Post by sbell on Oct 4, 2008 14:14:17 GMT
Exactly what I was thinking! Totally agree ;D And speakin' about biomechanical tests and studies...Well,in my opinion the majority of them are just bullnuts,with no REAL use for understanding how these animals really moved I mean...How can i believe,for example,that a big "lizard" like an Allosaurus (or some other theropod like that) had a stiff tail,couldn't rotate his wrist or some other nuts like that? Bah! Don't believe anything--do research on biomechanical engineering and learn for yourself why they are saying these things--and how you can provide evidence to the contrary.
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Post by bustosdomecq on Oct 4, 2008 17:58:43 GMT
Don't believe anything--do research on biomechanical engineering and learn for yourself why they are saying these things--and how you can provide evidence to the contrary. WHAT UTTER NONSENSE. Do you mean to tell me that I have to be a meteorologist to talk about the weather, or a mathematician to believe 2 and 2 are 4? Is there not room for common sense in science? Or is it just a prerogative of scientists? Of course, some people in this forum appear to think one has to be a palaeontologist to talk about dinosaur toys! Typical palaeontological snobbery--though given archaeoraptor and t-rex proteins [sic] and now this "pterosaurs can't fly" nonsense I don't think palaeontologists have any right to be proud of their record, eh?
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Post by Blade-of-the-Moon on Oct 4, 2008 18:00:21 GMT
Just a thought but maybe he meant actual flapping wings flying...not just gliding..things do get lost in translation frequently. Not to take away from anyone's fantasy ( even my own ) but as was mentioned..there are large flightless birds today and have been in the past..so why does the largest Pterosaur have to fly ?
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Post by bustosdomecq on Oct 4, 2008 18:03:16 GMT
{Continuation of previous post, criticism not directed at Blade of the Moon } And how do you know the researcher actually studied pterosaur flight mechanics? What he did was attach a speedometer to the wing of the albatross and concluded that anything larger couldn't fly! Where is his proof? Or do our paleontologists actually have a living pterosaur to actually check their theories against? And how about evolutionary theory? Why would a flightless pterosaur run around with his 30 foot wings? What else is a creature with a 30 + wingspan supposed to do with its wings? Isn't the ichnological (sp) evidence clear that pterosaurs walked on all fours clumsily on land? How then is a quetzalcoatlus supposed to be a secondarily flightless creature? How can it defend itself against a raptor pack or an enraged t-rex?
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Post by tomhet on Oct 4, 2008 18:08:18 GMT
*reads several articles* Let me get this straight, he studied several birds and then he declared that pterosaurs were unable to fly? That's ridiculous. He can't reproduce the conditions the Earth had back then, he can't possibly know the weight of a pterosaur and we don't know what kind of soft tissue these animals had, so how exactly is that science? there are large flightless birds today and have been in the past..so why does the largest Pterosaur have to fly ? Well, I'm no expert, but the wings of flightless birds are vestigial, aren't they?
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Post by bustosdomecq on Oct 4, 2008 18:10:22 GMT
Yup, that's all the 'scientist' did. But since we aren't biomechanical engineers sbell thinks we have no right to an opinion!
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Post by Dinotoyforum on Oct 4, 2008 18:46:40 GMT
"...he determined that animals weighing more than 40kgs (88lbs) cannot flap their wings fast enough to stay in the air."
And that's all. I can't find any specific quote from sato saying that pterosaurs couldn't fly in any of the news stories. Just hyperbole. No stories I have read even say how much large pterosaurs weighed. I haven't read Sato's non-peer-reviewed abstract, I can't find it online. Even if this is what Sato is saying (I suspect he has been misinterpreted), the better news stories explain that pterosaurs could have flied without flapping. Lets save our argument till after the study is actually published, if it makes it past the reviewers...
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Post by richard on Oct 4, 2008 20:18:21 GMT
Don't believe anything--do research on biomechanical engineering and learn for yourself why they are saying these things--and how you can provide evidence to the contrary. pterosaurs anatomy wasn't made for walking or swimming.... and if we are talking about weight, I wonder how boeings fly?
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Post by bolesey on Oct 4, 2008 20:46:20 GMT
I haven't read Sato's non-peer-reviewed abstract, I can't find it online. you'll find it in the pdf here, Page 72: "THE MAXIMUM AND MINIMUM STROKE FREQUENCIES OF FLYING BIRDS: IMPLICATION FOR THE MAXIMUM SIZE OF FLYING ANIMALS" Somehow the abstract lists the upper limit as 52kg, while the figure in the press reports is 40kg. The abstract makes no grand pronouncements (or even mention) of how these findings may relate to pterosaurs.
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Post by stoneage on Oct 4, 2008 22:00:42 GMT
;D When I was a kid scientist couldn't explain how bees could fly. Seems their technique was different then birds. This didn't stop the bees from flying though. Hopefully will find out more about this in the future. ;D
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