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Post by arioch on Sept 8, 2011 12:13:32 GMT
EDIT: ok, seems like I misunderstood the question.
Being a small game predator and possibly an omnivore, I dont think its so unlikely that Troodon had some blue simple feathers in certain parts of the body. For a full blue pigmentation it would need an extensive diet almost exclusively based on said carotenoids though.
Great article btw, I often use it as a reference to paint my feathered dinos.
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Post by crazycrowman on Sept 8, 2011 20:05:03 GMT
EDIT: ok, seems like I misunderstood the question. Being a small game predator and possibly an omnivore, I dont think its so unlikely that Troodon had some blue simple feathers in certain parts of the body. For a full blue pigmentation it would need an extensive diet almost exclusively based on said carotenoids though. Great article btw, I often use it as a reference to paint my feathered dinos. But carotenoids don't/won't affect "blue" at all - As I just posted from the article, "blue" would be structural, and NOT based on diet. Reds, Oranges & Yellows are carotenoid based (most of the time, as in parrots, some penguins & turacos they are not, so there is even the possibility that some dinosaurs had their so far unknown and unique way of deriving the colors) - For example, Aviculturists need to color feed birds like canaries & flamingos, not the carnivorous Blue Bellied Roller...  |
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Post by arioch on Sept 8, 2011 20:57:37 GMT
Hmm. I was thinking it was like the bright reds or yellows. You usually dont see a lot of predatory birds with blue plumage, apart from that example...Good to know.
Anyway, I think our best bet is stick to the colors known from those holotypes. I don think they were capable of communice visually with the same complexity of avian dinos.
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Post by Sparkleopteryx on Sept 8, 2011 23:21:15 GMT
See, you guys are awesome. Thank you! I love learning about this stuff and gathering opinions. The more I can figure stuff out and learn and discuss, the better I can do the next time around for you guys  I'm glad you enjoyed most, some or all (or none is fine too!) I agree about the Waterhole. I got into that one and really wish it could have been a 2 hour show instead. And when my Mira's walked out I almost died, lol! Def. agree that color is nothing new in paleoart, but I still kept getting asked from my friends (non dino people) why the "big ones" weren't brown. I think most people must just think big in terms of mammals, I guess anyway. I'm a pattern and color nerd though. Actually, pattern is even more my thing. Draconyx is probably my favorite of mine (and is not colorful) besides my Shroomosaurus. But, yeah, agreed. Thanks again as always, I learn a ton from you guys. And thanks again to everyone for your comments!!! Much appreciated Best, Angie |
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Post by Radman on Sept 8, 2011 23:52:03 GMT
I taped the show last Sunday (I have to get up reeeaaalll early for work) and still haven't gotten a chance to watch the whole thing, which is why I have withheld comments until now. I have seen bits while rewinding (yes, I still use a VCR, makes me kind of a dinosaur myself  ;D), overall, the dinosaurs look fantastic, IMHO. Will post something more substantial after I have seen the whole thing in peace and quiet... |
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Post by ikessauro on Sept 9, 2011 1:20:53 GMT
Hey guys, I watched the show and must say it's awesome!
But I have a doubt. Which species are those sharks from first episode?
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Post by gwangi on Sept 9, 2011 1:41:41 GMT
I was just able to watch both episodes myself and I gotta admit despite my initial worries that I absolutely... LOVED IT!
It has it's flaws as anything does but the animals were the best dinosaur reconstructions I've ever seen, great job to all those involved. The unbelievable behavior wasn't too unbelievable and the humor was well timed and not present throughout the entire show as I feared. I was truly engrossed in the allosaur story. If a figure line is made I expect an allosaur with a broken jaw. I hope a big name movie director see this and draws inspiration from it because I would have gladly paid to see the watering hole episode as a full length theatrical feature.
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Post by crazycrowman on Sept 9, 2011 2:18:21 GMT
Hmm. I was thinking it was like the bright reds or yellows. You usually dont see a lot of predatory birds with blue plumage, apart from that example...Good to know. MANY Coraciiformes are blue, predatory birds & are an "ancient" group to boot. Some examples...    Just saying... I don think they were capable of communice visually with the same complexity of avian dinos. IMO, that is a pretty imposable statement, as we really have no way of knowing. Just like its said in Dinosaur Revolution - Just because they are extinct doesn't mean they were not every bit as complex as the animals we share the world with today. @ Angie & Co, keep the bright colored and awesomely patterned critters coming! |
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Post by dyscrasia on Sept 9, 2011 4:44:08 GMT
I've watched the episodes yesterday, and they were amazing as expected.
The watering hole definitely more enjoyable, but besides the awkward animation, Evolution's Winners was great too.
As most ppl have already mentioned, the modeling and colors of the creatures were excellent, possibly some of the best showed on screen so far.
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Post by darwinian on Sept 9, 2011 5:56:33 GMT
Angie and company, I loved the coloring on the dinosaurs. Most reptiles and birds have very complex patterns and colors. Just go to a reptile show to see the wild stuff nature has created. So why not dinosaurs who were related closely to these groups? I dont think that bright colors or patterns on dinosaurs is anything new really-just look through really old back issues of PT-I think that most paleo artists have been using bright colors and patterns on dinos for many years now- I remember catching hell back in th 80's from museum directors for using reptile patterns and bright colors on models, had to repaint many of them to make these guys happy with the browns and grays that seemed the norm back then-but I would say that since the 90's it has been the standard to do so for most paleo artists. I even had a museum in '96 ask me to paint a T.Rex in black and orange tiger stripes, so even by then colors and patterns were becoming more normal to see- I would say that one should do what they want artistically, but to be realistic, one should think of the environment that a dinosaur lived in, if that is known-most (not all) animals are colored for camoflage- patterns are used to break up the animal to confuse predators, and colors used to blend in- I read the Dinosaur Heresies my first year in college (88-89). Jurassic Park (the book) came out not long after, and I know I was seeing artists doing brightly colored dinos around that time. |
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Post by arioch on Sept 9, 2011 9:48:53 GMT
[...] IMO, that is a pretty imposable statement, as we really have no way of knowing. Just like its said in Dinosaur Revolution - Just because they are extinct doesn't mean they were not every bit as complex as the animals we share the world with today. @ Angie & Co, keep the bright colored and awesomely patterned critters coming! Those birds are fishers and insectivores, with the exception of Kookaburra which often feeds on small vertebrates. I was talking about true predatory birds, whose main diet consist of land or another flying vertebrates: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird_of_preyAs for the complexity of behaviour, I think the HUGE difference in the braincase size and structure between avian and non avian theropods would play a major role.... |
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Post by crazycrowman on Sept 9, 2011 10:38:05 GMT
Those birds are fishers and insectivores, with the exception of Kookaburra which often feeds on small vertebrates. I was talking about true predatory birds, whose main diet consist of land or another flying vertebrates: MANY of the kingfishers are vertebrate eaters every bit as much as many raptors, some to the complete exclusion of fish. Pound for pound, this group has been called "the most aggressive of living predatory vertebrates".  The White Throat is just one example.  Some populations of White Throats are lizard specialists. Yep. Not fish & bugs. Tasty little (and no so little) squamates. You did not specify "bird of prey", rather, predatory birds - and that really it is of little matter in this discussion - Why would troodon be more like todays raptors then todays coraciids? Many of the "dino birds" are smaller, and would just as easily fit into the niches coraciiformes occupy then would fit into those of raptors. The birds above are every bit as predatory as raptors & plenty of raptors eat diets similar to the coraciiformes. The rollers & many other small kingfishers are can be seen as synonymous with kestrels, and the Kookaburra with small owls or hawks... As for the complexity of behaviour, I think the HUGE difference in the braincase size and structure between avian and non avian theropods would play a major role.... And yet we have plenty of "tiny brained" reptiles with elaborate & complex rituals and behaviors. I'd agree that they probably behaved differently, but I still don't think it equates to "less". |
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Post by brontozaurus on Sept 9, 2011 12:20:40 GMT
Hey guys, I watched the show and must say it's awesome! But I have a doubt. Which species are those sharks from first episode? According to the website, which posted a clip from that part, the sharks are Squalicorax. After watching both episodes, I'm not sure what to think. On one hand, it had some of the best looking CGI dinosaurs I've seen, certainly a far cry from the greens and greys in most of these kinds of docos. I liked the approach, too; it was kind of like a TV series of Age of Reptiles. And I did like the focus on less well-known dinosaurs-the true revolution here seems more in the species presented rather than the actual science (see below). It was also nice to see themes other than 'How dinosaurs destroyed each other', because there was more to the Mesozoic than ultraviolence. On the other hand, while I didn't mind the humour most of the time, sometimes it got a bit silly. Like when the Eoraptor flipped that mammal into the Saurosuchus' jaws-it felt a bit too cartoony for a scientific show. And speaking of science, sometimes it didn't feel like we were getting anything that the name 'Dinosaur Revolution' implied. It opened with the narrator saying that what we knew about dinosaurs was wrong, but then what followed was the retreading of some familiar ground. Even the average joe probably knows about parental care in dinosaurs thanks to Maiasaura getting heaps of attention. Don't get me wrong, I liked DR, and I'm going to be watching the rest of it, but I had some issues with it, too. |
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Post by Griffin on Sept 9, 2011 13:22:53 GMT
Male Kestrels have bluish feathers.  Even so I agree with CCM there are many highly predatory birds out there that that are not from falconiformes or strigiformes. Flashy colorful galliformes like peafowl and turkeys won't hesitate to nab small animals. Thats pretty much what troodon was theorized to eat- small animals. When I did my Unenlagia painting (see sig) I had galliformes in mind. |
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Post by arioch on Sept 9, 2011 16:30:40 GMT
Yeah, Troodon and Unenlagia are def closer to a peacock than to a bird of prey. But I think a heron is a better analogy. Long snout, long legs... Also, some very flashy coloured feathers could help him to intimitade another potential predators of the same environment like stockier dromaeosaurs or fast juvenile big theropods (but that´s also a very good reason to have a discreet pattern which help them to blend as well...) Why would troodon be more like todays raptors then todays coraciids? Many of the "dino birds" are smaller, and would just as easily fit into the niches coraciiformes occupy then would fit into those of raptors. The birds above are every bit as predatory as raptors & plenty of raptors eat diets similar to the coraciiformes. I never said the opposite! but I was talking about birds of prey pigmentation, my fault for taking it as a synonim of predatory bird (is a language thing) |
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Post by Griffin on Sept 9, 2011 16:48:19 GMT
Heron isn't a really built for running, Galliformes are. Even so, its really tough to say there is one bird in particular thats a better reference than any other. I'm just saying that there is nothing wrong with using birds other than raptors.
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Post by arioch on Sept 9, 2011 17:22:52 GMT
Heron isn't a really built for running Neither are deinonychosaurs. Despite the hindlimb lenght, their estructure wouldnt allow them to run very fast or for a long time. Maybe ground hornbills would be the better analogues of troodontids. But yeah, is hard to say. |
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Post by Griffin on Sept 9, 2011 17:52:49 GMT
Deinonychosaurs were probably much more adapted for running than a heron is my point.
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Post by krentz on Sept 9, 2011 18:31:05 GMT
BIG NEWS!!! IMPORTANT!!! I NEED YOUR HELP!
Due to what we think is 911 sensitivity, the last two episodes of Dinosaur Revolution will air on Tuesday September 13 at 9 PM
on the DISCOVERY SCIENCE
CHANNEL! Note that is not the regular DISCOVERY Channel but the SCIENCE Channel.
Again, air date for DR is Tues Sept 13 at 9 PM on Discovery Science Channel.
These last two shows are have my personal favourite stories, so PLEASE forward this to all the forums and blogs and Twitter/ Facebook as quickly as possible.
David Krentz
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Post by paleoferroequine on Sept 9, 2011 18:59:15 GMT
BIG NEWS!!! IMPORTANT!!! I NEED YOUR HELP! Due to what we think is 911 sensitivity, the last two episodes of Dinosaur Revolution will air on Tuesday September 13 at 9 PM on the DISCOVERY SCIENCE CHANEL! Note that is not the regular DISCOVERY Chanel but the DISCOVERY SCIENCE Chanel. Again, air date for DR is Tues Sept 13 at 9 PM on Discovery Science Chanel. These last two shows are have my personal favourite stories, so PLEASE forward this to all the forums and blogs and Twitter/ Facebook as quickly as possible. David Krentz "SIGH" Well, I don't get Discovery Science, only Discovery. That's the breaks.  |
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;D), overall, the dinosaurs look fantastic, IMHO. Will post something more substantial after I have seen the whole thing in peace and quiet...
